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TOPIC: Barge project

Barge project 25 Feb 2017 10:24 #86664

As others have said, I wouldn't bother with painting, I painted my newbuild and it was the right thing to do but I would just go for hull grease and I would do it in sections just before you put the floor down or you will be skating all over the place and it doesn't half hurt if you land on o bit of angle iron. Try to make sections of floor that you can lift to inspect and add a bit of ballast if you have to (I doubt if you will need any or very little in your boat when its fitted out) It is or was possible to sprayfoam with DIY kits - I did but it is incredibly messy and you will never find your phone / glasses / dog again as they will be hidden in great clumps on the floor. Good luck
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Barge project 25 Feb 2017 09:33 #86662

Joan Eagles wrote:



I was hoping to give her a fair few coats of red oxide and paint, but a few people have mentioned using bitumen instead.


I would use hull grease, the traditional treatment for barge bilges (below the water line).

One you've cleaned the bilge (it looks like you have already), I would put on one coat of Vactan (a rust converter/passivator), and then apply the grease. Vactan, being the consistency of a milk shake, goes on very easily (much easier than paint), and AIUI produces a good surface for the grease to adhere to. The grease lasts almost forever once in place (it needs warming first, e.g. in a drum over a heater, then can be painted on thickly), and provides excellent protection for the steel even if the bilge is constantly wet,

Above the water line, on the hull and superstructure, Vactan again, then a professionally- sprayed application of foam insulation, I suggest ~50 mm thick (the Dutch standard seems now to be 60 mm). But make sure you've installed all the battens, brackets, etc. you will need first!

I would avoid bitumen. Not that long lasting, and (on the outside of the hull at least) authorities are frowning on it more and more.

Adrian
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Barge project 25 Feb 2017 09:30 #86661

Hi Joan,

Either you have done an exceptionally good job of cleaning out all paint from the lower hull, or it has been waxed in the past with Dutch "Anti-Roest Vet" (anti-rust fat or "ARV" as an abbreviation), which is absolutely normal for old riveted Dutch boats.

If that is the case the fat will have penetrated the porous old metal and you will not get any normal paint to bond long term. Grit blasting can help but fat will still remain in the pores of the metal.

ARV is in any case by far the best solution, and its use by the Dutch is one of the main reasons why so many of their older ships are still with us.

ARV in conjunction with Owatrol Oil will also reduce the risk of corrosion scaling in the interfaces between frames and plating and in the riveted lap seams.

However, sprayed urethane foam insulation will not bond to ARV.

My suggestion for the lower hull areas:

1. Clean up by hand scraper, chipping hammer and power wire brush to remove all loose material and vacuum out. De-greasing is not necessary.

2. Brush a good coat of Owatrol Oil along all frame and seam interfaces and over any scale remaining. Owatrol Oil is a highly penetrative rust treatment, ideal for this purpose and many others. See www.promain.co.uk/manufacturers/owatrol/owatrol-metal/oil-for-rusted-surfaces.html .

3. Dollop on a good layer of ARV. ARV is available in the UK from Energy Solutions, Rochester.

4. Insulate with Rockwool cavity batts or self-extinguishing polystyrene board.

5. Upper areas which have clearly been painted can be repainted in the normal way and insulated with spray foam if you wish, but if they are to be hidden behind linings then you could just treat these as above (ARV & Rockwool). ARV dries to a soft waxy surface, so is not cosmetically good in areas where you will see or touch it, e.g. the sides of engine rooms.

6. If you must paint, use a good bitumastic paint or tar varnish. You can use black bitumastic in the bilges just as is used on the outside of hulls. For areas that will remain seen there are coloured bitumastic paints available which look OK and are more tolerant of surface contamination than normal primers and gloss finishes.

7. As an alternative to all the above you could grit blast and foam spray. You do not need to prime before foaming since the foam will stick better to the mildly waxy metal than paint will, but this will be a much more expensive course and I am not convinced that it will be significantly better than 1 - 4 above noting that the foam may well stick adequately to the metal (with a mechanical bond to the frames and rivet heads etc), but it probably won't bond perfectly, so you won't achieve the full benefits of spray foam. I would always recommend spray foam on new grit blasted steelwork however.

8. You should not foam spray the bilges (meaning the flat bottom and the lowest 150mm of the sides), so if you do 7 above then you still need to do 1 - 3 for the bilges.

9. Final point: whether the lower hull has been waxed in the past or not I still think that ARV (& Owatrol) is the best possible anti-rust treatment. Some people perceive a fire risk in using ARV (when welding). I don't given normal precautions, and if you are over-plating in general now then the future need for welding to the hull will be insignificant.

Balliol.
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Barge project 25 Feb 2017 07:54 #86660

Hi
Unless u have the proper gear and experience get a professional company to do the insulation. As a rule of thumb the hull needs to be paintable/painted inside. The insulation will stick to the paint, but the paint must stick to the steel. Hire an airless sprayer. C

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> On 25 Feb 2017, at 05:40, DBA Forum (B) - Joan Eagles wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi
> I was hoping to give her a fair few coats of red oxide and paint, but a few people have mentioned using bitumen instead. I've been under the impression that this was used as blackening so I don't know how affective, practical or popular this practice is
> I was hoping to use closed cell spray foam as insulation (everywhere) and this I was considering doing myself ( does anyone have any advise on this also and has anyone done it themselves .....if so what was the outcome )
> I have posted an attachment of the inside and that is what she looks like at the moment I have yet to vacuum and wipe her down with methylated spirits. I have been told to pour degreaser down and leave it to evaporate to loosen any remaining contaminants then vacuum and clean but I'm not sure shown that will help, however if this is good practice then which one should I use?
> Cheers
> J
>
>

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Barge project 25 Feb 2017 05:40 #86658

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Hi
I was hoping to give her a fair few coats of red oxide and paint, but a few people have mentioned using bitumen instead. I've been under the impression that this was used as blackening so I don't know how affective, practical or popular this practice is
I was hoping to use closed cell spray foam as insulation (everywhere) and this I was considering doing myself ( does anyone have any advise on this also and has anyone done it themselves .....if so what was the outcome )
I have posted an attachment of the inside and that is what she looks like at the moment I have yet to vacuum and wipe her down with methylated spirits. I have been told to pour degreaser down and leave it to evaporate to loosen any remaining contaminants then vacuum and clean but I'm not sure shown that will help, however if this is good practice then which one should I use?
Cheers
J
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Barge project 25 Feb 2017 04:08 #86657

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Hi everyone can anybody out there help me? I'm in the very early stages of renovating my newly acquired old lady (Via Nova lV) .As you can see she needs a lot of love,time and dedication which I have plenty of The things that I'm lacking in is experience and knowledge.
At the moment she is having her hull replated, which is all well and good, but my concern is now that she has been completely stripped out I am now in the process of cleaning the inside in readiness for priming and painting before insulating. My main concern is how clean does she have to be prior to priming. The attached photos show what she looks like at the moment. If more preparation is needed before priming can anyone suggest what needs to be done. I intend on vacuuming her and cleaning down with methylated spirits will this suffice? I appreciate I will never get it perfect as she is getting on a bit

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Barge project 25 Feb 2017 04:07 #86656

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Hi everyone can anybody out there help me? I'm in the very early stages of renovating my newly acquired old lady (Via Nova lV) .As you can see she needs a lot of love,time and dedication which I have plenty of The things that I'm lacking in is experience and knowledge.
At the moment she is having her hull replated, which is all well and good, but my concern is now that she has been completely stripped out I am now in the process of cleaning the inside in readiness for priming and painting before insulating. My main concern is how clean does she have to be prior to priming. The attached photos show what she looks like at the moment. If more preparation is needed before priming can anyone suggest what needs to be done. I intend on vacuuming her and cleaning down with methylated spirits will this suffice? I appreciate I will never get it perfect as she is getting on a bit

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Barge project 25 Feb 2017 02:18 #86654

I am moving/have moved this topic to the Barges category as that is more appropriate to the subject.

Best wishes,

Bob Marsland
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Barge project 25 Feb 2017 02:01 #86652

What type of primer do you plan to use and what type of insulation? What does the primer manufacturer suggest?

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Barge project 24 Feb 2017 22:45 #86651

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Barge project 24 Feb 2017 22:44 #86649

Hello Joan,

I think your photos got lost somwhere. They will only get through if you post from within the website.

You will reach a bigger audience if you send them to the BARGES section rather than BARCHAT.

Best Wishes
Andy Soper
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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
mv Neeltje
Coookham

Barge project 24 Feb 2017 22:39 #86648

  • Joan Eagles
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Hi everyone can anybody out there help me? I'm in the very early stages of renovating my newly acquired old lady (Via Nova lV) .As you can see she needs a lot of love,time and dedication which I have plenty of The things that I'm lacking in is experience and knowledge.
At the moment she is having her hull replated, which is all well and good, but my concern is now that she has been completely stripped out I am now in the process of cleaning the inside in readiness for priming and painting before insulating. My main concern is how clean does she have to be prior to priming. The attached photos show what she looks like at the moment. If more preparation is needed before priming can anyone suggest what needs to be done. I intend on vacuuming her and cleaning down with methylated spirits will this suffice? I appreciate I will never get it perfect as she is getting on a bit

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