Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
14 Mar 2019
Videos of the AGM and the entertaining post-AGM talk by Mick Nolan of the Thames Sailing Barge Trust
are available through the Quick Menu (under the Members tab).
BARGES: All about barges and barging - building, buying, maintaining, equipment, handling on the water, etc.

TOPIC: ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate??

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 22 Nov 2018 11:11 #102533

simon wrote: I think that what I have achieved might now pave the way for others to obtain an ENI and certification from the Belgium authorities without any issues at all.

I sent an email to the RYA utlining the issues that I was having with the Belgium authorities-they subsequently sent that to the MCA who in tern contacted the Belgium adminstaration, they replied with “there are some internal problems with issuing ENI numbers to recreational craft here in Belgium” since that email I have been issued with the ENI number as I said in an earlier post- When I typed that earlier post I hadn’t received all the correspondence between the MCA and the Belgium authorities!
So it would appear now from all of the correspondence that the issuing of ENI numbers for qualifiying Leisure craft in Belgium regardless of its owners nationality has now been overcome-and that applies to everyone!


You took some pain for the gain of the wider community and I am sure others will be grateful for that in due course.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 22 Nov 2018 10:56 #102532

  • Simon Jenkins
  • Simon Jenkins's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 131
I think that what I have achieved might now pave the way for others to obtain an ENI and certification from the Belgium authorities without any issues at all.

I sent an email to the RYA utlining the issues that I was having with the Belgium authorities-they subsequently sent that to the MCA who in tern contacted the Belgium adminstaration, they replied with “there are some internal problems with issuing ENI numbers to recreational craft here in Belgium” since that email I have been issued with the ENI number as I said in an earlier post- When I typed that earlier post I hadn’t received all the correspondence between the MCA and the Belgium authorities!
So it would appear now from all of the correspondence that the issuing of ENI numbers for qualifiying Leisure craft in Belgium regardless of its owners nationality has now been overcome-and that applies to everyone!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Pete_Milne, Sam Archer

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 21 Nov 2018 13:34 #102526

One of the best bits of advice we had from Guy many years ago was that (in France, at least) the first response to any adverse statement from an official is always to ask for reference to the reglement (law).

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 21 Nov 2018 12:39 #102524

  • Pete_Milne
  • Pete_Milne's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 3765

simon wrote: It would seem that just because one official says it is incorrect it doesn't mean that it is

That's the most important lesson from this saga!
Inevitably, our lifestyle involves unusual situations that are out of the experience of many officials.

Pete

PS I think the 'pleasure commission' Simon mentions is part of the Belgian ministry of transport - Mobilit.belgium.be

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 21 Nov 2018 12:06 #102523

  • Simon Jenkins
  • Simon Jenkins's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 131
Now this is the question-how long do I hold my breath for until someone else makes a reverse decision? (this really is a joke-you couldn't write this stuff)

I have just had another email from someone else in the pleasure commission quoting the articles of the Inland community boating certificate, and telling me that I can indeed use the ENI that was issued last week.

It would appear that the surveyor that did the initial survey (he was from the same office in the pleasure commission) who told me that I couldn't have an ENI was also the same person who sent me the email on Monday to say that I couldn't use the ENI that the same department had sent to me on Friday!?!?!
So I sent him a reply quoting the Articles etc and low and behold this morning another person from the same department came back to me and said that I could indeed use the number that was allocated to me last week.

It would seem that just because one official says it is incorrect it doesn't mean that it is!

My advice to anyone in a similar situation-if you know that the information that you have is correct then keep badgering until someone sits up and takes bloody notice!

Thanks again everyone who has contributed and helped-and especially Pete for providing so much useful information.

Fingers Crossed!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sam Archer

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 21 Nov 2018 10:48 #102522

simon wrote:

Sam Archer wrote:

simon wrote: I does anyone have any other ideas?


sorry to hear what you are going through, only thing I can suggest is to get another surveyor and just use the ENI you have been issued without going into any further details of its origin etc. Appreciate that comes at a cost.


Wish it were that easy-can’t use the ENI number they issued me as they told me I can’t use that one-so they would know if I tried to use it now! Good point about trying a different surveyor providing they can issue an ENI number!


Simon, when you say "they" told you not to use it I understood that it was the surveyor? Are you now clarifying that to say that the department that issued it have subsequently said you cannot use it? If it is just the surveyor I guess you have choices. fight it out as you appear to be doing, go get a more sympathetic surveyor and just present the ENI number already on the vessel or if in concern about the old surveyor getting the ENI cancelled ask for another one (possibly using a different email account). Obviously you shouldn't need to go through all these hoops at all and I do hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 20 Nov 2018 22:00 #102519

  • Pete_Milne
  • Pete_Milne's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 3765
I can only suggest trying again as they certainly seem to be the right place. See the mobilit web page here .
Technical documents


From 1 January 2015, most documents must be requested from the Flemish Region at the Flemish inland shipping counter at 2900 Schoten, Hoogmolendijk 1 ( This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. ).

ENI number

At the request of the owners, a unique ship identification number or ENI number (= european identification number) is assigned to inland waterway vessels in the EU. All ENI numbers consist of 8 digits, of which the first three for Belgium start with 061 through 069.
From 1 January 2015, the ENI numbers in the Flemish Region must be requested from the Flemish inland navigation counter .

Pete

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 20 Nov 2018 21:50 #102518

  • Simon Jenkins
  • Simon Jenkins's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 131

Pete Milne wrote: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. is the untranslated email address

Pete


Yes Pete emailed them a few weeks back and they never came back to me!

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 20 Nov 2018 19:26 #102517

  • Pete_Milne
  • Pete_Milne's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 3765
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. is the untranslated email address

Pete

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 20 Nov 2018 18:45 #102516

  • Pete_Milne
  • Pete_Milne's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 3765
mobilit.fgov.be .says
"The ENI numbers in the Flemish Region must be requested from the Flemish inland navigation counter at 2900 Schoten, Hoogmolendijk 1 ( inland navigation inspection @ wenz.be"
Did you try there?
Pete

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 20 Nov 2018 17:54 #102515

  • Simon Jenkins
  • Simon Jenkins's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 131

Sam Archer wrote:

simon wrote: I does anyone have any other ideas?


sorry to hear what you are going through, only thing I can suggest is to get another surveyor and just use the ENI you have been issued without going into any further details of its origin etc. Appreciate that comes at a cost.


Wish it were that easy-can’t use the ENI number they issued me as they told me I can’t use that one-so they would know if I tried to use it now! Good point about trying a different surveyor providing they can issue an ENI number!

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 20 Nov 2018 17:08 #102514

simon wrote: I does anyone have any other ideas?


sorry to hear what you are going through, only thing I can suggest is to get another surveyor and just use the ENI you have been issued without going into any further details of its origin etc. Appreciate that comes at a cost.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Simon Jenkins

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 20 Nov 2018 16:52 #102513

  • Simon Jenkins
  • Simon Jenkins's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 131
I almost knew it was too good to be true! I had an email from the same surveyour in Belgium who told me they couldn’t issue an ENI number when he did my survey to say to disregard the ENI number they had just issued to me and They will not issue me with an ENI number!

Does anybody have any idea who I can speak with in a higher position in Belgium to get this ENI number or does anyone have any other ideas?

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 16 Nov 2018 18:44 #102462

  • Paul Hayes
  • Paul Hayes's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 1567
Well done Simon, worth sticking with it. It'll take five years of leisurely barging to grow back the hair that you lost in the process.
Perhaps overlooked is that you have set a strong precedence possibly for others to take strength from.
Paul Hayes
The following user(s) said Thank You: Simon Jenkins

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 16 Nov 2018 11:55 #102460

  • Pete_Milne
  • Pete_Milne's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 3765
Hooray!

It only takes one bureaucrat who doesn't know the rules to create confusion.

Pete
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sam Archer, Simon Jenkins

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 16 Nov 2018 11:22 #102459

  • Simon Jenkins
  • Simon Jenkins's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 131
AT looooong last my barge has been issued with an ENI number.

Having contacted the RYA (the MCA's ENI issuing authority) who have still not come back to me with any sort of help other than saying NO they cant help as its a foreign registered ship! (3 weeks waiting) So I dropped a simple email to the Belgium authorities requesting an ENI number-even though I had been informed by the same authorities that under no circumstances would they issue an ENI number to a non Belgium citizen.
They emailed me back within 24hrs with the ENI number for the barge!

The long saga of obtaining ALL of the necessary paperwork to be able to cruise legally on the continent is finally over-until Brexit-then who knows!

Thanks to everyone in the DBA for their advice, help, information, PM's and support without which I would have never have purchased the barge, moved it 1600km found a winter mooring and got the paperwork all sorted!

Cheers everyone.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 03 Nov 2018 13:52 #102236

  • Pete_Milne
  • Pete_Milne's Avatar
  • Away
  • Posts: 3765

simon wrote: Can I make a suggestion to who ever can update the Knowledge base-please insert an explanation what an ENI number is and its implications? Anyone else researching barges would find it useful information.


Done! Under Regulations / The Boat

Pete

Suggestions for correction or update to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. please.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Simon Jenkins

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 03 Nov 2018 10:20 #102235

simon wrote: Thanks for the input Simon, Tam and Andy-I have sent an email to the Belgium authorities requesting an ENI number-it might be that the CBB surveyors were wrong-which looking at the directive they are, if they still won't issue one then I will quote the directive and see where that gets me.

I am still waiting for the RYA to come back to me-and as Tam and others have said if they issued numbers to foreign vessels in the past then they should do so now!


Your second para - RYA - As far as I know the foreign built vessels, like mine, were UK registered at the time - and that is the MCA instruction that they should be working to.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Simon Jenkins

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 03 Nov 2018 10:06 #102234

  • Simon Jenkins
  • Simon Jenkins's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Posts: 131
Thanks for the input Simon, Tam and Andy-I have sent an email to the Belgium authorities requesting an ENI number-it might be that the CBB surveyors were wrong-which looking at the directive they are, if they still won't issue one then I will quote the directive and see where that gets me.

I am still waiting for the RYA to come back to me-and as Tam and others have said if they issued numbers to foreign vessels in the past then they should do so now!

Please Log in to join the conversation.

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 02 Nov 2018 19:48 #102232

It was certainly simple enough when the RYA was first appointed to issue ENI numbers May/June 2011 so ships could get their TRIWV certification , and several owners with UK registered vessels vied to get the lowest numbers - Friesland is 140 00008 but I can't now remember who has 00001. I can't imagine why the RYA should be at all confused now, 7 years later.

Tam

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.216 seconds