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TOPIC: ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate??

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 02 Nov 2018 19:36 #102231

Directive 2016/1629 Article 18

Unique European vessel identification number

1. Member States shall ensure that each craft is assigned a unique European vessel identification number (ENI), in accordance with Annexes II and V.
2. Each craft shall have only one ENI, which shall remain unchanged during its entire lifetime.
3. When issuing a Union inland navigation certificate, the competent authority shall include the ENI therein.
4. Each Member State shall draw up a list indicating the competent authorities responsible for assigning ENIs and shall notify the Commission thereof, as well as any changes to the list. The Commission shall maintain an up-to-date list of competent authorities on an appropriate website.

It is open for discussion as to which member state issues. the ENI. We pressured MCA into appointing a UK number issuer for UK ships to address the reluctance of some nations to issue numbers to non-residents.

UK derogated its waters - not ships - hence the need for UK 140 numbers.

The number is attached to the ship - not the owner..
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Andy Soper
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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 02 Nov 2018 17:41 #102230

Hi Simon,

Thats interesting that the RYA said that. No one in the UK can issue the certificates, so therefore you'd think the RYA wouldn't have issued any ENI numbers. We got one last year (British Ship, resident over here) but the certificate was issued by Register Holland.

Hope you can find a solution, it does seem to me that Belgium should issue it if the ship is registered with them.

Thanks,

Simon
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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 01 Nov 2018 19:39 #102222

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Hi Pete

Having spoken with the RYA again today they had revisited the articles for the ENI and as I had also read them it does state that the country issuing the CBB/TRIWV certificate are also the ones to issue the ENI number, so I shall be contacting the Belgium authorities tomorrow again and asking them to issue one!
And as you say-its immaterial who owns the boat as the number is for the boat!

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 01 Nov 2018 19:30 #102221

Good point Simon. I suspect that most of us will have simply been assigned an ENI with issue of the Community Certificate and instructed where to put it on the boat, so it has never been too interesting - until your experience. I will get an article on the KB.

I've not heard of any other member being refused an ENI on grounds of nationality so I think whoever told you that was talking nonsense. The number isn't even related to the 'nationality' of the boat, since it remains on the boat for its lifetime.

Incidentally, for everyone, PLEASE email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. with any suggestions for addition or change to the knowledgebase. It is continually evolving, often from comments on the Forum, but it needs YOUR knowledge to keep it uptodate. DBA doesn't have a huge team of researchers to maintain it!

Pete
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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 01 Nov 2018 19:07 #102219

Simon,

As the DBA's new found expert on ENIs, perhaps you could write a few paragraphs on ENIs and then the KB editor will incorporate your pearls of wisdom.
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Colin Stone
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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 01 Nov 2018 18:28 #102217

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Can I make a suggestion to who ever can update the Knowledge base-please insert an explanation what an ENI number is and its implications? Anyone else researching barges would find it useful information.

When I was doing my research before buying a barge the knowledgeable section was very helpful indeed-but I never found anywhere the mention of an ENI number!

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 29 Oct 2018 18:04 #102148

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And the saga goes on and on...........................

Had an eamil back with the application form from the RYA for the ENI number-and I just knew it-they cant issue it as its registered in Belgium, they can only issue to a UK registered boat, the Belgiums canbt issue one as Im not a Belgium resident-so come on guys where do I go from here-this is all i=I need now to get my Community certificate!

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 25 Oct 2018 14:12 #102087

Pete

Since I like formula's. I tried to look up the one to get an ENI number, and to my surprise I see in the wikipedia article that aso Austrlia and the USA have a EIN prefix! where the hell would you get one in either of these 2? lol

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 25 Oct 2018 10:08 #102080

The Netherlands have a formula for calculating the ENI, as I and others have described BUT there is no know equivalent for other countries, notably Belgium, which is under question here.
I think whoever told Simon that they would not issue an ENI because he isn't Belgian is wrong. I'll talk to my Belgian friends (on a 29m Tjalk).

Pete
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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 25 Oct 2018 09:21 #102079

We had our first TRIWV in 2010 - along with NL AIS grant. Peter Voerman asked if I had an ENI, I didn't know of one.
He checked the NL kadaster and found the hull had been allocated one automatically.
Our hull number is 2004 BR 25625 - year, Breda and number. Our ENI is 02325625.

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Colin Stone
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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 25 Oct 2018 08:13 #102076

We went through all this in the NL, the ship has an ENI and you don't need to have it issued. It is the country code with a 0 in front then the ships number with a 0 in front if only three digits as Pete said. Ours is Den Hagg (where the ship is registered, 301) so 0301 followed by the ships number as per the registration, in our case 366, so 0 in front and you get 0366. So 03010366. In the end we worked it out with help from others, I then asked the authorities to confirm the number and they did. The number belongs to the ship and has nothing to do with who owns it.

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 25 Oct 2018 06:44 #102074

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Andy Soper wrote:
UK is 14 but most older ships will have had an NL number allocated against a Kadaster entry - a Dutch surveyor can advise.


Andy my ship has not ever had an ENI number given to it and the ship is on the Belgium register in my name now-will the UK issue me with an ENI number as it’s a Belgium register ship? The Belgium authorities said they wouldn’t issue the ENI number as I’m not a Belgium citizen!

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 24 Oct 2018 23:20 #102073

Posted to soon.
When in 2011 it became necessary to obtain the triwv we were told that before it could be issued we needed the ENI number and I seem to recall that it was some time before the Rya could start to issue them. We were number 10.
No mention was made that other countries could issue us a number or that old ditch numbers could be used. Peke has AM and also ROTT and BE numbers punched into the hull .

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 24 Oct 2018 23:12 #102072

When we had the first triwv certificate in 2011 there was no mention of using the same surveyor and the situplation was that the hull survey was not more than 2 years old. Our hull was surveyed by Mr Beck our Belgium surveyor and then later in the year Peter Voerman came and did the certificate. This time I used a French surveyor whilst in SJDL dry dock last year and after contacting peter this year was told about the “change” but luckily the French man was acceptable . Anyway new certificate obtained.

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 24 Oct 2018 22:09 #102070

David Warren wrote: It now seems that you need to use the same surveyor for hull and the community certificate unless the hull surveyor is recognized by the classification society who are issuing the certificate.

I don't think that's very new though it may be getting more formalised. My Dutch Community Certificate (CBB) surveyor was happy to accept a survey by another HISWA certified surveyor, who wasn't certified for the CBB. It is up to the actual CBB surveyor to accept a hull survey as adequate. My second hull surveyor wasn't HISWA accredited and his survey wasn't accepted for the CBB renewal. [It was a bad survey report too] It is certainly better to get one surveyor to do both hull and the certificate.

I though the Eni number was issued by the country of registration and 14 is the U.K. number ....

The number need not be issued by the country of registration (see my previous), though usually is. Each country has a range of three-digit prefixes as here so UK has 140-159. The Netherlands (020 – 039) uses the 4th digit to denote the port of registry, so my boat, originally registered as 'sHage 450' automatically has the ENI 03010450 as 0301 indicates Den Haag.
Ultimately the number doesn't really matter as long as it is unique for the AIS. A boat can be transferred from one owner or registry to another but still keeps its ENI.

Pete

* HISWA is a Dutch standards society for surveyors. In my area, Belgium and Holland, the Community Certificate is commonly known as the CBB.

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 24 Oct 2018 21:41 #102069

Hello David,

Yes - you do need to be sure that the certificating organisation is happy with your hull surveyor.

OTOH my EU certificate survey was later accepted by my insurer to delay the need for an insurance survey.

Swings and roundabouts - always worth asking or checking.

UK is 14 but most older ships will have had an NL number allocated against a Kadaster entry - a Dutch surveyor can advise.

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 24 Oct 2018 20:37 #102068

It now seems that you need to use the same surveyor for hull and the community certificate unless the hull surveyor is recognized by the classification society who are issuing the certificate. I nearly fell into this trap by having my hull survey in time for the insurance company a year before the old certificate expired. Fortunately it has turned out that the French surveyor is known to the Dutch society.
I though the Eni number was issued by the country of registration and 14 is the U.K. number and all the European countries have their own numberhich you can see on the sides of the commercials.

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 24 Oct 2018 19:03 #102065

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Pete Milne wrote:
Simon - Which company did you use?

Pete


I used the pleasure commission based in Ostend rather than an accredited surveyor as I had already had my hull survey carried out by a surveyor that could not do the community certificate part-and speaking to a surveyor that could do th community certificate they wanted to do the hull survey themselves!
In future I will use a surveyor that can do both!

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ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 24 Oct 2018 17:02 #102062

simon wrote: I asked the two surveyors that came to conduct the community certificate today about the changes that are coming and they said that there were no changes due for another 5 years or so and that a deadline of December is unheard of!?!?! Maybe not in Belgium!

Some Belgian surveyors do not have a good reputation in Belgium! Another reason for my neighbour's choice of Dutch!
P

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

ENI-ESTRIN-community certificate?? 24 Oct 2018 17:00 #102061

I am pretty sure any country can issue an ENI to a ship of any registry - and to an owner of any nationality. It's about the ship, not the owner.
My Belgian neighbour in Belguim, with a boat of no known registry(!), recently received a Dutch ENI from her Dutch CCB inspector. It's possible that a country may set arbitrary restrictions - or that Surveyors don't understand how something out of the ordinary works.

The Belgian inspection ceased to exist for a period when Commercials became a federal responsibility but Pleasurecraft were devolved to the regions (Flanders and Wallonia). Hence use of a Dutch company (Register Holland). Belgium existed well without a federal government for a couple of years, so anything's possible.

Simon - Which company did you use?

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe
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