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TOPIC: Police Checks Belgium

Police Checks Belgium 11 Jun 2018 21:40 #99347

Chris Grant wrote: Peter

It sounds as though you have not looked at the document. It's simply a
multi lingual xls template to modify to your needs and print out a cover
sheet for the index of your helm ring binder. Of course all the
documents in my ring binder divided sections are original.

On 20/10/2015 12:55, DBA Forum (WCE) - Peter Cawson wrote: But wouldn't
the police want to see original documents rather then an owner-produced
Excel spreadsheet? You could be making it all up! Peter


Sadly yet another example of PC not engaging all his faculties before rushing to post!

Thank you, Chris, for your very organised and well documented system. May I say members wishing to view this should skip down the list to SEP12_4.

My ring binder contains most of what you say but without the index sheets. Must find time to take your lead.

Best wishes to you and to Diana,

Bob
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Bob & Bobbie Marsland
MS La Chouette

Police Checks Belgium 20 Oct 2015 18:30 #67767

All times we've been checked (once in 8 years) the Belgian police were happy to accept copies of all relevant documents.

Michel

ms 't Majeur
Www.t-majeur.nl

> Op 20 okt. 2015 om 13:59 heeft DBA Forum (WCE) - Chris Grant het volgende geschreven:
>
>
> Peter
>
> It sounds as though you have not looked at the document. It's simply a
> multi lingual xls template to modify to your needs and print out a cover
> sheet for the index of your helm ring binder. Of course all the
> documents in my ring binder divided sections are original.
>
> On 20/10/2015 12:55, DBA Forum (WCE) - Peter Cawson wrote: But wouldn't
> the police want to see original documents rather then an owner-produced
> Excel spreadsheet? You could be making it all up! Peter
>
>

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Rebecca Mater/Michel de Lange
luxemotor 't Majeur

Police Checks Belgium 20 Oct 2015 13:59 #67751

Peter

It sounds as though you have not looked at the document. It's simply a
multi lingual xls template to modify to your needs and print out a cover
sheet for the index of your helm ring binder. Of course all the
documents in my ring binder divided sections are original.

On 20/10/2015 12:55, DBA Forum (WCE) - Peter Cawson wrote: But wouldn't
the police want to see original documents rather then an owner-produced
Excel spreadsheet? You could be making it all up! Peter

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Police Checks Belgium 20 Oct 2015 12:55 #67741

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But wouldn't the police want to see original documents rather then an owner-produced Excel spreadsheet? You could be making it all up!

Peter

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Police Checks Belgium 20 Oct 2015 09:23 #67722

A ring binder index template is available to down load on the website forum posting of this message for anyone who would like to use it. Obviously, replace all my ship details with your own!

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Last Edit: by Chris Grant.

Police Checks Belgium 06 Oct 2015 11:50 #67276

On 5 Oct 2015, at 23:04, DBA Forum (WCE) - Andy Soper wrote:

>
> Hello Pete,
>
> Not quite. - you quote 700 x 700 when it is 600 x 600 only for SMALL craft (under 20 m)
>

CEVNI Art 3.03 says simply:
3. They shall be large enough to be easily visible; this condition shall be considered to be satisfied in all cases:
(a) For the boards and flags if neither the length nor the width is less than 1 m or, in the case of small craft, less than 0.60 m;


So strictly 1m (or 60cm) square is simply a recommendation that it satisfies the requirement that it is easily visible. I don't see any problem with Board Members sharing differences on boating style on-line by the way.

I don't find the aesthetics of a blue board objectionable (though they are prone to damage on trees on small canals) but Nick's light should satisfy the practical and legal requirements, night and day. However although better than nothing flags are not easily seen, especially on a windy day.

Tam

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Police Checks Belgium 06 Oct 2015 11:26 #67275

I have a 1m x 1m hand-held blue flag & a flashing white light on the starboard roof of the wheelhouse of my 22m Luxemotor Hoop op Zegen. All compliant with TRIWV & much cheaper than fitting an ugly Blue Board.
Nick Bostock






Original Message

From: DBA Forum (WCE) - Andy Soper <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

To: Waterways Continental Europe subscribers <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>

Sent: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 22:04

Subject: Police Checks Belgium








Hello Pete,

Not quite. - you quote 700 x 700 when it is 600 x 600 only for
SMALL craft (under 20 m)

What you think is a reasonable relaxation may be OK
to you and me - but not the policeman.
I also got a gentle ticking off for
trying to moor to the railings with the stern rope with the head rope on the
bollard - and the next bollard 20m astern,

(As Board Members perhaps we
should share our differences off line?)



Best Wishes
Andy
Soper
Chairman, DBA - The Barge Association,
mv Neeltje, Cruising in The
Netherlands
+44 (0) 7940598364 or +44 (0) 303 666 0636
You don't need a
barge to join - a dream of barging in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org


On 5 Oct 2015, at 22:48, "DBA Forum (WCE) - Pete Milne" wrote:

>
>

Andy Soper wrote: > ...it is important we give the rules first
and then, possibly, the likely relaxations - as I think you agree?
>

> I do indeed and I think that's exactly what I just said!
>
>
Pete
>
>

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Police Checks Belgium 06 Oct 2015 10:55 #67270

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Sorry - should be

CEVNI v5 rules - Blue Board sizes For normal ships 1000mm x 1000mm. For small ships (under 20m length) 600mm x 600mm.

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA - Director Representation
mv Neeltje
Coookham

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Police Checks Belgium 06 Oct 2015 10:51 #67269

"DBA Forum (WCE) - Andy Soper" wrote:
>
> Hello Pete,
>
> Again - the CEVNI v5 rules - BB 1m x 1m. For small craft (under 20m) 600m x 600m.
>
600 metres by 600 metres, wow, that's a big boat! :-)

Maybe I'm trying to teach grandmother to suck eggs (or I didn't
understand what you meant at all) but the conventional way to write
600 square metres is 600M^2 (sometimes omitting the 2).

--
Chris Green
·

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Police Checks Belgium 06 Oct 2015 10:49 #67268

"DBA Forum (WCE) - Andy Soper" wrote:
>
> Hello Pete,
>
> Not quite. - you quote 700 x 700 when it is 600 x 600 only for SMALL craft (under 20 m)
>
Ah! I did misunderstand, you were quoting the size of a 'blue board',
sorry folks! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

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Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 22:48 #67258

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Andy Soper wrote: ...it is important we give the rules first and then, possibly, the likely relaxations - as I think you agree?

I do indeed and I think that's exactly what I just said!

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 22:32 #67256

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Hello Pete,

Again - the CEVNI v5 rules - BB 1m x 1m. For small craft (under 20m) 600m x 600m.

Agreed - the reasonable policeman will accept 'the spirit' -!as did ours - our BB is only 600 x 2 - but you cannot rely on that and we must explain the rules to members first - and then acknowledge the exemptions.

Neither pair accepted Caroline's offer of coffee or cake - we may be into a new regime of number of checks achieved rather than number of coffees/cakes? The check-list is high on serial numbers rather then effectiveness of the equipment - OTOH they may feel that if you have all the right paper you have the right equipment as well - a pragmatic approach.

As Board members it is important we give the rules first and then, possibly, the likely relaxations - as I think you agree?

Best Wishes
Andy Soper
Chairman, DBA - The Barge Association,
mv Neeltje, Cruising in The Netherlands +44 (0) 7940598364 or +44 (0) 303 666 0636
You don't need a barge to join - a dream of barging in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA - Director Representation
mv Neeltje
Coookham

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org
Last Edit: by Pete Milne. Reason: o

Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 22:14 #67254

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Practical experience as well as knowledge of the regulations is valuable, which is all we have been adding to Andy's post.

Those of us with 20-30m boats live in a legal mist where many rules are designed for (much larger) commercials and pretty clearly inappropriate to pleasurecraft of our size. That makes it important to know the regulations and be aware of which ones you choose to (or have to) breach (e.g. a 700mm blue board), so you know when to be deferential to a policeman in a bad mood! Also carry good coffee & cake.

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 21:40 #67253

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Pete, David, Balloliol, Peter Voerman, et al,

I just try and give the reference to the rules. Any other action will doubtless be similarly criticised!

I am sure that action in the spirit of the rules will usually be accepted - but this cannot be guaranteed.

(cf every BE barge on one rope and motoring ahead - but the policeman tells me to secure two lines and stop the screw!)

CEVNI v5 is the latest authority.

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA - Director Representation
mv Neeltje
Coookham

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 18:30 #67249

It depends which number you are talking about, ENI, Communautaire, or Meetbrief number.

For my ship, and others that I have been involved with in Belgium, under the Belgian system the ship has to be measured for tonnage under their system measurement rules, resulting in a Meetbriefnummer, which usually seems to be carved or pop marked on the engine bed in letters & numbers about 50mm high.

The Communautaire certificate no. is carved on the stern end with a cold chisel, starboard side, in my case on the saloon roef edge, in letters & numbers about 40mm high

There seems to be total confusion over where the ENI number should go and what size it should be, but the advice given was that, as for the name, the size of the lettering should be as large as possible so as to be legible, the inference being that if (as for Blue boards) the exact specified size could not be realistically achieved then something lesser might be acceptable. So far as location is concerned we have the ENI number on the stern cabin bulkhead and on either side of the hold coamings at the bow.

I think that if you look at the commercials you will see that there are many variations in terms of the size and location of the ENI.

Balliol.

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Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 14:09 #67244

As I understood Peter when we got the certificate the number should be stamped into the starboard rear of the boat. In our case behind the wheelhouse. The old boat now has 2 lots of Dutch numbers, tonnage, depth and Belgian numbers stamped in the hull. David

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Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 13:10 #67243

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Andy Soper wrote: Name letters must be at least 20 cm and numbers 15cm.

..For a boat 20m or longer.
But - like the 1m square Blue Board, smaller in proportion to the boat, seems to be acceptable. My numbers are 10cm high because the space available is only 15cm. 10cm is the minimum height (in CEVNI) for the boat's name and registration on a boat under 20m.

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 12:55 #67242

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Hello Chris,

The regulations are in CEVNI (not TRIWV) v5 Chapter 2.

The ENI is required and does away with the need for any national number.

Name letters must be at least 20 cm and numbers 15cm.

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA - Director Representation
mv Neeltje
Coookham

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 09:48 #67229

Andy

Thanks for the good advice list so as to be prepared, we have been
checked several times in Belgium, most winters we are visited by the
police on routine check in ports like Brugge. The ATIS number has been
checked with special receiver displaying the number on transmit. It does
pay to have an orderly binder file with all the sections easily found,
as soon as they see you are organised, the process seems to be much
swifter. I've printed a 12 section index card for ours with headings in
three languages EN,FR, NL to assist finding relevant info. (.doc
template available if anyone wishes)

One thing I'm unsure about. Having obtained the TRIWV we obviously
display the ENI number but also have an SSR. Is it necessary to mention
SSR or display number on ship when you have an ENI with RYA issued ENI
certificate? As I'm about to order new decals after recent painting I
would like to lose the SSR number if possible. Any police unit in FR, BE
or NL should surely recognise and accept the ENI number.

As an aside, does anyone have the info about ENI number sizing and
positioning, Ship name, port and positioning and any other info. length,
beam etc. that you should display for TRIWV vessels? I can't recall
where I read about all this and can't find it in the knowledge base but
would like to get it right with new decals in the offing. Thanks.


On 04/10/2015 21:26, DBA Forum (WCE) - Andy Soper wrote: We have been
stopped and checked by the Wallonian Water Police twice in two weeks.
Both checks were from Liege based officers - polite, correct, good
humoured and determined. The items checked were: Skippers licence - UK
ICC accepted Skippers home address and date of birth Ships radio
licence, list of equipment fitted (but no check against actual), ATIS
variation and number. Radio Operator's licence - UK SRC accepted
Communtaire Certificate (we are over 20m in length) - Dutch certificate
accepted Registration - UK SSR accepted Lifejackets - asked number
carried ' quarte et deux pour chiens' accepted - no physical check Fire
extinguishers - one checked - 'in the green on the gauge' - accepted One
officer asked for 'certificate de jeaugage' but accepted not required as
we are a visiting ship. He also commented - after the three commercials
and left the lock - that I should use two lines to secure in a lock and
not use my prop and one line to hold position in the lock. I did not
argue that the commercials had all used this technique! Hope this helps
others to prepare for Wallonia

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Police Checks Belgium 05 Oct 2015 05:45 #67228

Thank you. Headed there this morning.

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