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TOPIC: skippers license

skippers license 15 Nov 2017 15:14 #95671

  • KD Peter Koenig
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Hi Tam, thanks for that. Aware of new rules - my license was previously only to 15m and is now valid up to 20m. Have emailed RYA. Am in contact with a school in Germany ref 25 m license and to discuss how one can increase to 25-35m - this is laid out for professionals - means I would need proof of time working aboard commercial vessels - basically an impossibility - will keep you informed. Thank you. Kind regards. Peter

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skippers license 15 Nov 2017 10:47 #95670

Peter,

I have sent you a private mail re the text of changes made by the German Authorities re Neue Sportbootf├╝hrerscheinverordnung scheduled 1 May 2017 in case it helps (Boat driving licences, for non-German speakers, and probably not relevant on the forum)

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skippers license 14 Nov 2017 10:42 #95667

The rules have indeed undergone slight tweeks since Muriel's application, and the October 2016 version of the ICC application form does imply that you (and Muriel) should be OK; it states that they are authorised to issue a UK ICC to anyone who is not a national of another UNECE member country AND also resident of another UNECE member country. That 'AND' would seem to imply your application would be acceptable. However I have not been intimately involved in that aspect recently.

I think if you just address your query to the Certification Department it will get to the right person. You'd need to ask if your residence is acceptable for gaining a UK ICC, and also if your national (German) qualification is regarded as satisfactory evidence of competence or would you have to do a further practical test. If the answer to both these is 'yes' you'd then need to do a test of the CEVNI rules which can be done on-line. I have a philosophical argument with that, as I don't think anyone can get practical working knowledge of the rules by rote-learning a book, but that's what the RYA accept.

You can make your initial approach on-line to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Good luck with the application.

Tam
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skippers license 14 Nov 2017 10:15 #95666

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Thank you Hans - lets hope they have changed their approach in the meantime. As Tam says we can but try. I would try and achieve a >25m license which is nearly impossible to get in Germany unless you start crewing on commercial barges for a year or three...- still waiting for some answers there. Thanks. Kind regards. Peter

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skippers license 14 Nov 2017 08:54 #95665

HOWEVER ...
If you are now resident of the country where you are based it is possible that the RYA would regard you as eligible - you can but ask them. They may even accept your existing certificates as equivalent to an ICC so you don't even have to do any practical. You would need to do a test for knowledge of the CEVNI rules if you do not presently have that. You would probably need to supply them with evidence such as a recent utility bill or bank statement, driving licence or other official document showing your name and address.


RYA did not issue the skippers license to my wife after she successfully passed her exam with Tam although she was a resident of Australia for five years with proof and all in 2014. My application at the time was accepted because I was able to present my Australian Passport. (I am a dual citizen Swiss/Australia) My conclusion: being a resident is not sufficient; you have to be citizen of one of the eligible countries! I like to add, Tam did everything possible to have RYA reverse their decision - but no luck.

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skippers license 14 Nov 2017 06:41 #95664

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Tam, thank you for that - I had the same "thought" and have already started formulating an enquiry to the RYA but have not finished and sent it off as yet. Perhaps you have a formulation-suggestion to start off correctly and, as such, a contact person at the RYA to not send it off into uncertainty. I have all required proof, workpermit, utility bills, driving license/national ID (and marriage certificate) to prove my being in Seychelles (since close to 7 years). All my existing certs are german though. I come from a sailing background - since nearly 45 years, ocean yachtmaster etc and also have the german internal waterways license (used to be to 15m but understand that is now to 20m) and have owned and operated a 87' barge/Elbefreighter for 15 years on the lower Elbe River (could drive that with my normal seagoing "driving" license if not going to the internal waterways - a litte "illegal" as she was registered as a commercial vessel). Whenever she "worked" we had to place a skipper on her - her ex owner did that for us until he was 88. She is now a museum -vessel in Flensburg being the last small Elbefreighter around - we saved her from being scrapped in the early 80ies by paying the scrap-premium offered by the government to get rid of the small tonnage at the time to the then already 76yearold owner going into retirement and kept her certified as a freighter all those years without conversion. Thank you, over and on standby....:):) Peter

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skippers license 13 Nov 2017 23:32 #95663

The ICC was set up under UNECE Resolution 40 which used to say that it could be issued by any UN country but only to their own nationals or residents. We argued that this meant that many of the new barge owners found it almost impossible to get any acceptable certificate as they would have to take the domestic licence of some European county and didn't have the necessary language skills, and the Resolution was amended to alow it to be issued to nationals of non-UNECE member states.

The German authorities objected to the original proposal as it would mean that if if they cancelled someone's certificate for any misdeed they would be able to go to any other country and get another one - hence the bit that says a national of any UNECE country can only get his certificate from his native country. This means that you are back in the situation where you need a domestic licence such as those I mentioned for Germany, Holland or France (or Belgium)

HOWEVER ...
If you are now resident of the country where you are based it is possible that the RYA would regard you as eligible - you can but ask them. They may even accept your existing certificates as equivalent to an ICC so you don't even have to do any practical. You would need to do a test for knowledge of the CEVNI rules if you do not presently have that. You would probably need to supply them with evidence such as a recent utility bill or bank statement, driving licence or other official document showing your name and address.

Let us know how you get on - it could be useful information for others.

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skippers license 13 Nov 2017 19:18 #95662

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For the Knowledgebase answers, see Knowledgebase - Regulations - The Skipper which explains in more detail.

Pete
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skippers license 13 Nov 2017 19:09 #95661

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Dear Tam, thank you for that - am pretty bad at searching.... Will carry on checking the "german" route, but know it is tedious and long. I do not speak french nor dutch. Did I understand correctly that the RYA (online) course is only for UK citizens ?
Thanks for your help. Kind regards. Peter

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skippers license 13 Nov 2017 15:34 #95660

You will find a lot of information on the DBA knowledge base, but it may not encompass your particular circumstances. There is also a series of articles on my site found in the archive at:
www.bargehandling.com/Bargehandling.com/BARGE_HANDLING_BLOG/Archive.html

As a (presumably) German national you could do the Sportschifferzeugnis test for craft to 25m, acceptable in all other European countries.

There is the International Certificate of Competence (ICC) with inland endorsement affirming knowledge of the CEVNI rules - the 'highway code' for inland boating and the equivalent of the COLREGS in use at sea. This is acceptable everywhere for vessels 25m or more except in Germany, where it is only valid to 20m. However an ICC issued by the RYA is not available to nationals or residents of another UNECE member state, so that presumably will include you.

The French Extension Grande Plaisance would also do, but you have to have do a practical course on a little cruiser initially and take a computerised test of CEVNI (in French) before you can proceed to the Extension course.

If you can get by in Dutch there is also the Vaarbewijss - Geert-Jan Smolders of Aquaplanning could possibly help with that.

As far as I am aware a VHF User's Certificate is valid for life, so yours should still be OK despite the various technological advances.

Tam
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skippers license 13 Nov 2017 11:20 #95659

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Dear DBA members, we are in the process of purchasing a 24.9m dutch flagged barge to live and cruise continental Europe - starting in France and Belgium, later the Netherlands and possibly Germany and further east (in a few years...).
As a sailor I have the german "Sportbootfuehrerschein See" and Ocean yachtmaster as well as the "Sportbootfuehrerschein Binnen" which allows me to "drive" vessels up to 15m on the european inland waterways. I also have the very old vhf radio license.
Question now is: how and where can I do the neccessary skippers license allowing me to "drive" vessels up to 25m in Europe. I have many contradictory informations uptill now and am hoping to get clarity from within the DBA as to where and easiest I can comply with current regulations. I am based overseas (Indian Ocean) so it would be best to prepare online even if I have to be in Europe to do the actual "test" etc.
I look forward to hearing back asap to hopefully resolve this.
Kind regards. Peter

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