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Navigating and living on the waterways of Continental Europe and news of canal developments.
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TOPIC: Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 09 Nov 2018 18:12 #102318

A bit more on gas hoses.

I contacted Codan who make the HP Class 3 gas hoses I use.

He replied with an extract from EN16436-2 which basically states that for Class 2 and 3 hoses there is no life limit. But some nations have included a life caveat in the standard.
FR has 10 years, PO 4 years and E 5 years. BE has no caveat in the standard. All life from manufacturing date.

Waiting to get hold of BE gas regs from "FOD Mobiliteit en Vervoer" to see if that contains the mythical 3 years.

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Colin Stone
KEI
www.luxe-motor.kei.co.uk

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 22:27 #102284

Paul,

I agree but the gas inspectors I have dealt apply the same life on hoses as the inspection. I asked the current gas inspector about unlifed stainless BES hoses and he still said renew at years.
Now that Pete has indicated that a Euroclass surveyor is happy with 10 years, I'll go back with that.

Meanwhile does anyone know where the Belgian gas regulations are??

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Colin Stone
KEI
www.luxe-motor.kei.co.uk

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 20:59 #102282

I swapped for these
Flexible stainless steel, no expiry date
www.bricoman.fr/flexible-inox-gpl-butane-propane-sans-date-de-validite-longueur-1-metre.html

As one of the current adds says "Ageless"

Paul Hayes

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Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 18:49 #102281

Colin Stone wrote: BES have some rather smart stainless steel braided hoses which I thought would be permitted a good life, but in BE only 3 years, so as rubber.

My Belgian gas inspector (from Euroclass) was happy with 10 year for the rubber hoses. Just as well since the hoses are Dutch, with slightly different end-fittings. A difference between the national and the ES-TRIN standards may account for some differences. A gas inspector is not necessarily an ES-TRIN specialist. There's no excuse for arbitrary whims, though.

David Warren wrote: Unlike the continental rules which has a rubber pipe carrying high pressure gas between the bottle and the regulator.

Not on my (2010) Dutch installation, which has the regulator on the bottle!

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe
Last Edit: by Pete Milne.

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 18:30 #102280

Pete,

I am not saying that one shouldn't have a gas inspection or a detector - and €10 is pretty good value.

It is the arbitrary nature of a surveyors pet idea when it is not required by the regulations.
The whole point of ES-TRIN is commonality, not to satisfy individual whims.

If ES-TRIN requires hose replacement based on condition, the gas inspectors shouldn't impose a time limit. I accept that a non ES-TRIN vessel may well then be affected by national regulations requiring every 3 years.

BES indicate industry standard is a 5 year life, unless condition warrants earlier.
I don't think BSS has a time limit - it is condition based replacement.

And we need to stop wasting resources unnecessarily - which certainly applies to these hoses.

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Colin Stone
KEI
www.luxe-motor.kei.co.uk

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 18:12 #102279

Colin Stone wrote: Agree, nothing apparent in ES-TRIN that requires any detector anywhere. Get another surveyor and don't pay this one.

The UK BSS and most countries sensibly require a gas inspection on a boat. Every surveyor has slightly different standards & methods. There are also local standards, e.g. over the life of hoses, which may need to be met as well as the ES-TRIN spec. I shall be arguing the neighbour's case over the AIS that her ES-TRIN surveyor put on his list of work required but that's another matter. €10 for an alarm isn't worth arguing about.

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 17:51 #102278

David,

Same as BE. But a ridiculous waste of everything. Particularly when ES-TRIN just requires hose condition to dictate requirement. My first set of hoses hanging in the gas locker since 2010 are still in perfect condition.
My current black pigtail hoses from BES have a production date and no expiry. 2 bottles to Fuji auto changeover regulator sourced in UK.

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Colin Stone
KEI
www.luxe-motor.kei.co.uk

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 17:23 #102276

Colin.
The gas certificate is for 3 years so I think that they will need renewing then with later dated ones. The rubber pipe from the bottle to the regulator which is fixed to the side of the gas locker is French and has 2020 stamped on it so that will have to be renewed but bes said that the orange ones don’t have a use by but to inspect them for signs of wear..
Incidentally the surveyor thought that the uk way of having the regulator fixed directly to the gas bottle was a safer way as there was then no high pressure gas after the bottle. Unlike the continental rules which has a rubber pipe carrying high pressure gas between the bottle and the regulator.

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Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 16:54 #102275

David,

What life does the surveyor allow for the hoses??

BES have some rather smart stainless steel braided hoses which I thought would be permitted a good life, but in BE only 3 years, so as rubber.

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Colin Stone
KEI
www.luxe-motor.kei.co.uk

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 16:50 #102274

Just had my gas certificate renewed in France. It was done by a Dutch surveyor who is based in France and no mention was made of gas detectors but the uk rubber pipes caused confusion. They are stamped 2016 and a BS no 1999. He thought that they where made in 1999 and expired 2016. An e.mail from bes confirmed that they where manufactured in 2016 so all ok. I believe continental pipe has an expiry date stamped on it.
Years ago a Belgian surveyor for euroclass refused a certificate because I had a bubble tester he didn’t like as don’t think he’d seen one before. Next man no problem.

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Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 15:43 #102271

12 and 24v is fine. Currently have a 12v one inside below the gas hob, so runs off a small converter connected to the 24v fridge.

Agree, nothing apparent in ES-TRIN that requires any detector anywhere. Get another surveyor and don't pay this one. Another example of EU job creation.

Also noted 17.12 :

"’Flexible pipes shall be replaced as soon as their condition so requires’;"

Currently the BE gas inspector I use wants to see new hoses at each 3 year inspection.
He is now happy to accept UK compression joints which don't meet the BE spec, as I showed him they met the LPG BS.
So he should certify that the hoses meet ES-TRIN??
Otherwise just another waste.
I'll get in touch with him.

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Colin Stone
KEI
www.luxe-motor.kei.co.uk

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 11:15 #102265

Whoops, wrong link! Try this instead!

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 11:14 #102264

Tim Hackett wrote: Worth a thought. Shame it's not multi voltage.

Not a shame at at all. It's what they needed. Other voltages are available! JFEI

:-) Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 10:44 #102263

  • Tim Hackett
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Worth a thought. Shame it's not multi voltage.

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Tim & Jo Hackett plus moggie
Maria of Zaandam

Dutch Barges are only built in the Netherlands. Anywhere else is something else.

Our rivets are real not fake!

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 10:40 #102262

Ebay Item ID: 222615895694 12v.

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 10:24 #102261

Pete,

Where did you find a €10 LPG detector? and is it battery powered?

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Colin Stone
KEI
www.luxe-motor.kei.co.uk

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 09:55 #102260

My neighbour, too, and I bought the detector! This was a gas inspection, separate from but ES-TRIN, to provide a certificate to the ES-TRIN surveyor, so not necessarily to ES-TRIN rules.

This detector is absurd but if you want a certificate without a fuss you just do it, for a cost of €10 . The same inspector certified my gas installation without doing a pressure test - and no need for a detector. The Flanders gas and ES-TRIN inspectors don't have a good reputation!

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis, Europe

Es_TRiN, gas detectors and hoses 08 Nov 2018 09:33 #102259

  • Tim Hackett
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Morning all.
My new Belgian boat neighbour in Gent is undergoing Es_TRiN and the surveyor is asking for an LP Gas detector to be fitted including a sensor in the external gas locker.

I can find no mention or requirement for this in the regs.

Has anyone come across this?

I see the logic of having one inside (as I do) but in an external, ventilated locker?

Cheers

T.

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Tim & Jo Hackett plus moggie
Maria of Zaandam

Dutch Barges are only built in the Netherlands. Anywhere else is something else.

Our rivets are real not fake!
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