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TOPIC: Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium?

Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 26 Jan 2022 14:21 #127730

  • Michael Miles
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Using engine oil on the decks of old peniches has been the practice in France. I always wondered whether or not this would have been very messy, but if you look at the old working barges you will see that they are often brown n the deck area. I presume that the fact that the old oil was acidic would in fact 'burn' the oil into the steel. I'll ask around to see what was the means of application.

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 26 Jan 2022 13:07 #127725

  • Richard Cooper
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I remember talking to an old Dutch guy about 40 years ago (yes, really!) and he said engine oil is OK but not old engine oil as it is too acidic. Whether or not this would make very much difference to an ancient boat I really don't know - somehow I doubt it but its something to drop into a conversation down the pub . Morris lubricants make Ankor Wax which is much the same as Waxoyl for those with boats in the UK.

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 24 Jan 2022 19:48 #127703

  • Paul Hayes
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Hi Toby

Possibly a mixture of both fat and Waxoyl, as the second can be squirted under pressure by pump, a garden spray with a long tube might be useful, into hard to reach places.

These people would probably deliver.
www.moss-europe.fr/waxoyl-rust-prevention.html

Paul Hayes

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 24 Jan 2022 13:15 #127689

  • Michael Miles
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In my experience, if the barge is in the water then you will get condensation at the levels of the water outside. When I have been converting my barges, even in summer you could see where the water level was outside. With the sort of rust problem that you appear to have, I would have thought that you should wait until you next go to the slip so that the inside can properly dry out before any treatment. Fat is the easiest and cheapest way to go and has been used by bargees for centuries. Why reinvent the wheel.
Water will always collect at the stern of the hold and usually, there is provision for collecting it in the form of a well, which will, in turn, be connected to the ballast pump in the adjacent engine room.

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 23 Jan 2022 08:51 #127671

  • Toby Heidel
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Thank you for all the replies! For clarification, the area with the worst rust is the former hold, in front of the engine room bulkhead. There was apparently some water incursion in this area that damaged the area significantly over time, as the hull slopes from the forepeak to this space. In 2018, several rivets popped and the previous owner became aware of the damage. The boat was then hauled out and the affected area was overplated. In fact, it appears that Balliol, you completed a survey after the repairs! The boat was called Tintin then.

Unfortunately, no effort was made by the previous owner to slow the continued rusting after the overplating! I've opened a few sections of the floor further forward in the hold and there is rust present, but not to the severe extent where the hull was overplated. There is a bit of surface rust in the bilge as well (as there is significant condensation in the engine room in winter), but as the bilge looks to have been greased at some point there is no significant damage in this area. Most of the condensation seems to form on internal vertical metal structures in the bilge area such as the raw water inlet and the sea toilet pipe and then drip down onto the floor of the bilge.

Jackalope is in water. As it stands and based on the advice in this thread, I believe my course of action will be to wait until warmer weather when condensation isn't an issue. I'll remove the flooring starting at the bulkhead and going forward a frame at a time, carefully removing as much scale as I can as I go (the floors are a cheap vinyl, and the current access ports are quite poorly built and entirely insufficient). Then I believe I will use either Owatrol or traditional fat to stop the rust. When putting everything back together, I'll add some vents along the gunwales that open onto the void space under the floor for condensation circulation and fit a number of hatches into the new floor for later inspection. In the bilge, I think I'll scrape the old gunky fat out as much as possible and then retreat with fat again. Sound like a plan?

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 22:15 #127380

  • Lieke Cotton
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Maybe a bit off topic, but we used nC Nano Corrosion Passivator liquid last year on recommendation from a pro skipper, whilst we were in the shipyard. This may be worth considering.

Also by coincidence there was an article in the latest ‘Bokkepoot’ (LVBHB house magazine in Dutch) about this product.
Attached is a pdf file with more information.

Hope this helps.

Lieke

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 19:22 #127376

  • Paul Hayes
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Hi Toby

Happy New Year

Waxol is used in the car industry to protect blind voids, sprayed into awkward places.

Whatever you use that is oil, wax or grease based is going to add to the fire risk (as I'm sure you are aware). If welding takes place every one I have known keeps a fire watch, easily dealing with any outbreak as soon as it occurs.

I've never used it in a bilge, others may have a better idea if it's suitable. Owatrol Oil is used extensively in other places, it soaks into the rust, forming an air tight seal that stops oxidisation. Link Here

Traditional "Fat" is still extensively used, as previously discussed.

Which is best, I don't know, guess you pays your money and tales your pick. It might be worth talking to manufacturers Technical Sections.

Don't knock too hard and good luck. Let us know how you get on.

Paul Hayes

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 19:01 #127375

  • Balliol Fowden
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Waxoyl is spirit based and thus very flammable immediately after application, but the spirit evaporates. We used Waxoyl in all our narrow boat and barge shells without problems. I used it in Actief back in the eighties when we first did the conversion and couldn’t source antiroestvet in the U.K. It lasted very well and we never sensed any odour. Neither did we ever notice any flammability despite some quite extensive hull repairs over the years. To be honest, the Waxoyl applied in 1985 was still doing an excellent job in 2014 when we lifted the floors, but we re-treated since I don’t intend to lift the floors again for a long time.

However, I believe that antiroestvet is better, and that is what we used to re-treat. You do need access to apply it, which is where Waxoyl scores because you can spray that into cavities.

I do occasionally tip some 30 grade hydraulic oil into the bottom in the areas under tanks that I can’t physically get to. I tip a few litres in just forward of these specific areas and let it work it’s way back past the frames in the hope that it will get to any areas that water gets to. When I looked under the tanks in 2014 the normal water trap areas remained good so I conclude that it works. It is probably not best environmental practice to introduce oil into bilges, but we are talking of the normally sealed and dry cabin areas and so long as you don’t go mad I doubt if there would be any realistic pollution concerns. Old iron and steel is porous so the oil soaks in over time.

Cleaning out: We cleaned out originally using a big power wire brush, but I was ready with my welding plant and quick set cement just in case a leak did appear! Obviously how much you clean it all depends on how bad the corrosion is. You should try and remove all loose material and heavy scale, but on a small barge with a light hull I would not be too aggressive in case you find a hole. Keep a bag of quick setting cement and some scraps of timber and rags handy to seal a leak!

A good coat of Waxoyl or Antiroestvet will do the job on its own. I don’t believe in rust converters. You do really need dry plating however so this time of year is not good for the job.

All these materials are flammable to a degree, but we have overplated almost all the bottom of our ship over the years, and did major plating repairs around the bilges in 2018, and have never had a fire, which is not to say that you shouldn’t fire watch constantly during welding works!

Dutch barges have been treated internally with antiroestvet exclusively for many many years, and they are still around at an average age of over 100 years!

Balliol.
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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 18:45 #127374

  • Andy Soper
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Hello Toby,

You don't say whether Jackalope is ashore or afloat. If afloat do be very cautious attempting to remove rust. It may uncover an unanticipated hole.
Your 1927 hull has been rusting from the inside for many years and as you advise has ben neglected and is wet. I certainly wouldn't use anything more intrusive than the wet and dry vacuum plastic nozzle and , of course, have a bilge pump on standby.
There are at least three chandlers in Nieuwpoort (although yachty leaning) but almost any BE DIY Brico should be able to source the antiroestvet recommended by Tom (or it is available from Energy Solutions in Kent!) Before greasing the bilge you will need to treat the rust with Vactan / Fertan to stabilise the rust - again chandler or Brico
Almost any oil / grease can help to reduce corrosion and hydraulic fluid has been suggested before (and used by me) to 'top-up' the grease cover -it has good penetration for corners and seams.
Hope this helps - Good Luck!

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Andy Soper
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mv Neeltje
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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 13:53 #127367

  • Liza Hauwaert
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Dear Toby,

Happy new year. There is a big shop for pleasure and commercial craft in Oostende, so also seaside: www.marinestore-oostende.be/
He would have something like this: shop.nassau.be/product/12661/beta-antiroestvet-5-kg
which of course you could also have delivered to the marina but given the weight the postal cost might be high.

Best of luck,
Tom&Liza
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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 13:49 #127366

  • Sam Archer
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Toby Heidel wrote: We have a rusty hull in the Jackalope. It's currently quite damp as well. I find myself aboard for a week and would like to start tackling this rust now, as it's fairly significant after several years of neglect by the previous owners due to deferred maintenance and COVID. When I'm back aboard in a few months we'll start dealing with the condensation issues.

I'm thinking something like Waxoyl or grease after I knock the scale and gunk off, as the hull is quite dirty and it will not be dry when I treat it. Which begs a couple of questions - with these products, how aggressively should I go after the rust considering the boat is in the water - wire brushes and wire wheel or something gentler? Secondly, does anyone know of a supplier for an appropriate product in Belgium, particularly around Nieuwpoort or relatively close by?


Toby I used a cheapo Titan wet snd dry vac from Screwfix whilst in the water and found that the plastic tube end was quite good at dislodging bits of rust and the such like without too much fear of significant damage to the structure.

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 12:14 #127364

  • Pete Milne
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My surveyor recommended spindle oil on a slightly rusty bilge, suggesting application before travelling, so that rocking of the barge spreads it over the flat bottom.
Oil-store.co.uk said to me "The lowest viscosity spindle oil we can offer would be Mobil Velocite Oil No. 3; this has a viscosity grade of 2 cSt, offers good resistance to oxidation and protection from rust & corrosion."
I think the bilge needs to be dry for this.

Pete
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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 11:37 #127362

  • Sam Archer
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ps forgot to add, you need to treat the rust first with Fertain or something suitable after your scraping etc before you consider applying a product like grease. I dont have the link for the product but Andy Soper usually pops along and adds the right link for the grease/fat/vet that many use. I wouldnt expect you to have an issue getting something suitable in Belgium

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 11:34 #127361

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I beleive Waxoyl is NOT recommended for a couple of reasons. It can be smelly even sometime after installation and more importantly it is quite flammable so not much fun when welding is required.

I am sure some more experienced people will chip in, but the traditional grease route seems to be preferred by most even if this is a more labour intensive.

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Waxoyl or grease supplier for hull in Belgium? 05 Jan 2022 10:23 #127359

  • Toby Heidel
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We have a rusty hull in the Jackalope. It's currently quite damp as well. I find myself aboard for a week and would like to start tackling this rust now, as it's fairly significant after several years of neglect by the previous owners due to deferred maintenance and COVID. When I'm back aboard in a few months we'll start dealing with the condensation issues.

I'm thinking something like Waxoyl or grease after I knock the scale and gunk off, as the hull is quite dirty and it will not be dry when I treat it. Which begs a couple of questions - with these products, how aggressively should I go after the rust considering the boat is in the water - wire brushes and wire wheel or something gentler? Secondly, does anyone know of a supplier for an appropriate product in Belgium, particularly around Nieuwpoort or relatively close by?

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