TOPIC: Bottom blacking

This is what SML say about their hull blacking paint:

SML BALLASTIC BLACK PREMIUM NARROW BOAT HULL BLACKING. 5 LITRE TIN.
NOW WITH ADDED UV PROTECTION - BLACK STAYS BLACK FOR LONGER
Ballastic Black Premium Hull Blacking is a waterproof, high build bitumen coating that is ideal for use below the waterline as a hull blacking on narrow boats, canal boats and for vessels on the inland waterways. Bitumen products such as Ballastic Black provide an extremely flexible coating it can be applied on to bare steel or over existing bitumen based coatings.
Ballastic Black has a higher percentage of volume solids than Intertuf 16, Comastic and Rylards Rytex. This means that when applied at the same spreading rate Ballastic Black will provide a thicker coating (in some cases 30% thicker) which will give better corrosion protection and, perhaps more importantly, at a lower cost.

I've settled on my course of action.: after cleaning the hull with high -pressure hose, I've used a cup wire brush on an angle grinder to smooth the waterline and underwater surfaces (the topsides are in good nick). I'm now using "Ferrozinc 0575" (a bit like Halfords' "Kurust") from 3P paints in Manchester. This stuff tuns red rusting a hard oxide (ferric?); it certainly worked well on a trailer of mine. When that's done, I'm applying "Ballastic Black" from SML Paints in Cirencester. They say it's like Rytex, but cheaper and it applies a thicker coat as the paint has more "solid substance" and less thinners which evaporates during the curing process.. I'll put one coat of "Ballastic" on the topsides, 2 or 3 on the waterline, and 2 coats beneath that. Hopefully, that will be that; I can take my time getting the barge ready, as Covid has buggered up my plans for this summer.

Apologies. To correct my last post, para 3, in place if the duplicated reference to Jotun Jotamastic read Hempels Hempadur 45143.

Balliol.

I too cannot cite chapter & verse but would comment:

1. I wonder if there is some confusion between bitumen based products and tar based products. Tar has most certainly been banned for a decade or more. The two are rather different.

2. I see yards in BE & NL still using bitumen based paints such as Vikote but they do not have a good reputation. My impression, not based on recent personal experience (because I won’t use these products), is that the modern low VOC or water based products are a waste of time. As has been commented they seem to wash off!

3. In my personal and professional experience over 30 years of using two pack epoxy based products on my personal ship, and on our hire boats (in the past), products such as Jotamastic 87 or 90 , or Jotun Jotamastic, give excellent protection.. My scoreboard out of ten is:

Epoxy on grit blasted metal = 9/10,

Epoxy on well pressure washed metal (all loose material removed, some old well adhered paints or pitch remaining) = 7/10,

Modern dumbed down bitumens 2/10.

4. Teamac offer a one-pot Black Tar Varnish which I find very good for hull topsides and might be good for under water as well. It does not fade and chalk nearly as badly as bitumen does. It is supposedly non-toxic and is a synthetic tar so despite the name it does not actually contain tar. Although claimed to be non-toxic the product safety sheet does carry all the usual sorts of dire warnings.

5. Epoxy is generally agreed to be one of the most inert substances available ONCE CURED, but carries similar health warnings, as do many yachts type paints as seen in Dutch chandlers.

6. The difficulty with all these paints is separating the health warnings for application from the actual toxicity and leaching characteristics of the various paints once dried or cured. Very often all the figures are based on the individual constituent chemicals involved, not on data gathered from real life samples of the finished product once cured. However, most steel yachts that you see in Holland will be painted with similar epoxy products.

7. My advice: pressure wash to a good standard, needle gun any scale off, power wire brush (or Tercoo) as much as you can manage , and paint with Jotamastic 87 or similar up to just above the waterline, and Teamac Black Tar Varnish above the water line. Dispose of all paint tins carefully!

Balliol

Good afternoon Andy.
I can’t give you any legislation as I never queried what the shipyard told me. In 2001 our barge was in drydock at Moordgat in Antwerp harbour and needed blacking below waterline. I was told bitumen was banned in Belgium and they applied some substitute stuff which washed off within 2 years. At Vankerkoven yard they were using some stuff from Total which was again a non coal tar product which I refused and instead used a 2 part epoxy coating although to be honest the hull was not really clean enough it lasted 5 years. Since then in St Jean de losne dock it has had various different black but none of them bitumen. The odd thing is I could still buy tar varnish from the chandlers in Antwerp which was distilled locally .

Hello David,

I am having difficulty in confirming the ban on bitumen paints in NL and FR. The' Paints Directive' - 2004/42/CE of the European Parliament and of the Council of 21 April 2004 on the limitation of emissions of volatile organic compounds due to the use of organic solvents in certain paints and varnishes and vehicle refinishing products and amending Directive 1999/13/EC. required manufacturers to reduce VOCs in paints and both FR and NL have implemented the Directive. Can you point me at the source of the relevant legislation?

Keelblack, Intertuf 16 and Sigma Vikote 63 all contain bitumen. We have used all three!

Sigma applied to Neeltje in 2015 in Zaandam - in good condition at next docking 2017 wind and water overcoated with Intertuf 16

Keelblack to Cassiopeia (narrowboat) but had to be re-coated after 18 months with Intertuf 16 as the Keelblack had missing patches especially at wind and water area.

Have a look at www.keelblack.co.uk , we put it on 2 years ago very easy to apply, just be aware it may have a problem if done in extremely hot conditions.

My boat is currently out of the water at Stoke Boats, Longport Wharf, Stoke on Trent, where she was kept on the Trent & Mersey as a static liveaboard by boatyard owner.

Once the current plague is over and all the jobs are done, I plan to take her to France. So, would this "Ballastic be lawful there?

If not, what about "Rytex", which the boatyard recommends?

If not Rytex, what blacking can I use for boating in Europe?!

You have reopened a 2 year old thread. Where is your barge as bitumen is banned in most European countries.

My 54' river barge was painted with Coflex about 5 years ago. I'm told that Coflex is now banned, and that Rylards "Rytex" is a good replacement; but I've just been talking to a chap at SML Paints Paints in Cirencester, and they sell a blacking paint called "SML BALLASTIC ".

The Bay adverts says:
" NOW WITH ADDED UV PROTECTION - BLACK STAYS BLACK FOR LONGER" and
"Ballastic Black Premium Hull Blacking is a waterproof, high build bitumen coating that is ideal for use below the waterline as a hull blacking on narrow boats, canal boats and for vessels on the inland waterways. Bitumen products such as Ballastic Black provide an extremely flexible coating it can be applied on to bare steel or over existing bitumen based coatings."

"Ballastic Black has a higher percentage of volume solids than Intertuf 16, Comastic and Rylards Rytex. This means that when applied at the same spreading rate Ballastic Black will provide a thicker coating (in some cases 30% thicker) which will give better corrosion protection and, perhaps more importantly, at a lower cost."

When bought from the factory, it's around £26 per litre (plus VAT & carriage). Does anyone have any experience of this Ballastic stuff?

Pete,

Your plan should work just fine.
Better than wacking in the wedges to raise the hull.
We were refloated and moved a couple of feet on the sideways slip at Vreeswijk.
OK but nice new antifouling got dirty!

Colin Stone
KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk

Those gaps were supposed to be dashes (-) - hope it's all more or less comprehensible.
Pete

Ian McCauley wrote: I am fascinated by your carefully construed description that almost, but not quite, states how you dealt with the trestles. In case there isn't an episode two to clarify this, what did you do to paint those sections?

Hi Ian

We haven't actually dealt with the trestles yet, that's next week's job. The second coat went on today, and once this has hardened sufficiently, the intention is to proceed as follows:-

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place 2 x 20 ton capacity lorry jacks adjacent to each other on additional supports (i.e. to come up to height: the hull bottom is 90cm above the dock floor, while the jacks extend only approx. 30cm max.)

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insert oak 4 x 4's plus a steel load spreader plate between the jack and the hull

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partly jack up the boat by a few millimetres, one trestle at a time, sliding a second trestle in alongside the first one, using a fork-lift trolley (the trestles alone weigh a couple of hundred kilos each)

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lower the boat again on to the second trestle

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And so on for the other 5 trestles

How well this will all work remains to be seen. I would be very interested to hear other members' alternative suggestions and/or experience.

Frankly my preference would have been to re-flood the dry dock, but for the reasons explained, the dock manager doesn't want to do this.

Pete Clark

Hi Ian

My wife is a lawyer too, so no luck there, I'm afraid :-) - and she's not here to read it anyway, she's sensibly stayed at home.
If you look at my mail and attachment yesterday at 10.00 you'll see as much as I'm able to decipher for the present - I'll ask the VNF chappie who sourced it for me when I next catch him.
BTW I haven't forgotten you, I'll get back to you with a better (and slightly less tongue-in-cheek) description of the Wittring dry dock when I can.

Pete

Pete,
Accepting that you were a lawyer, could your better half read the can an tell us what you used to black?
8-)
And I am fascinated by your carefully construed description that almost, but not quite, states how you dealt with the trestles. In case there isn't an episode two to clarify this, what did you do to paint those sections?

Great fun, but practical advice too. Thanks Pete.
Ian

Ian & Lisette
Catharina Elisabeth

Hi Pete
Love it
Who recommended doing it yourself!
I seem to remember me saying that it a DIY job quite in your capabilities, ha ha ha
How was I to know you would listen to me Ha ha.
Just think of the self satisfaction you will get, good job done at 75% saving.
Good that the dogs ate not with you or you would have black retrievers.
Paul

It being Sunday, and having decided to take a day off from blacking my boat's bottom and to relax (helped immeasurably by the fact that I've run out of paint!) I attach some tongue-in-cheek musings on the gentle art of bottom blacking.

Pete Clark

Hi Pete
I Take it this is a one component product, open the tin, stir and apply.
The price sounds good, hope all goes well. Perhaps an entry in the Supplies Guide?
I'm pleased the dock there is living up to your expectations, it's always a funny feeling recommending a place to someone else. Buy Marc, the club Captain a beer from me. You can afford it with all the money you saved :-).
What are you going to do with the rest of the month? Take a walk up the opposite hillside to the little chapel (the one illuminated at night), lovely.
Paul

Oops, seem to have added the attachments twice over - sorry about that!

Way too late for your needs but thought I'd continue the same thread, for those also searching for Bottom Blacking, rather than start a new one.
At my last dry docking in 2012 Atelier Fluvial (SJdL) charged €870 for 1 week dry dock (21m) and €1,300, incl. VAT, for pressure washing and applying 2 coats of vinyl-based coating ("braie vinylique"). I'm sure both would be considerably more now... Now in the VNF dry dock at Wittring (€350 for a month), I'm currently applying a product called Hydrosphalt at a material cost of €220 per 25l (x 2 i.e. 2 coats on 130m2). I can't find it anywhere on the web but it's supplied by a local outfit called Amplitude Service in St. Avold (it's not on their website either so must be special). It's what VNF here, who sourced it for me, use for all their boats, lock gates, etc. so I reckoned what's good enough for VNF is good enough for me. I'll try to remember to report back at the next dry docking in 3 years or so. What I can say is, it's very sticky stuff! But it goes on well with a roller and gives good coverage (2nd coat still to come).
Pete Clark

Hi Linda

Braipox ( www.armor-chimie.fr/Braipox-fibre-2S.html ) appears to be a solventless microfibre epoxy with multiple industrial applications, so should last longer than tar based paints and be less toxic to environment and those applying it. Our quote for a two layer solvent free epoxy claiming 20 years (Chemco International) is around four times your quote for a smaller boat (13.7 meters). Ours requires high pressure water cleaning (our engineer is of the only sand blasting works school of thought), an undercoat as used by one member in the library but we are also applying a glassflake layer as recommended by Chemco. We hope to remember to report back on the effectiveness of both cleaning and painting techniques in this forum in a few years.

Our quote is 18 months old, interrupted by the floods. Our paint and delivery cost more than one of your coats (￡944, including 300 transport). Sounds like a winner to me!

Cheers
Chris

Sorry, should have said - it will be on the Canal du Centre in France.

I don't know where you are but tar based products are illegal in Holland so old fashioned bitumen is not really an option. Don't know what Braipox is or what it costs but if the cost of hauling or lifting in and out, pressure washing and labour plus vat is included then that could be the going rate. I expect others will know more.

We have booked our 20 metres tjalk in for a survey and been quoted €1000 per coat of braipox (2 coats). Is this very expensive? - we would prefer to do it ourselves with bitumen based tar to keep the costs down but would appreciate any advice. In the long run would it be preferable to have it done professionally with the braipox and if so what are he advantages?
Thanks
Linda & Andrew