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TOPIC: Engines - Emissions Legislation

Engines - Emissions Legislation 04 Nov 2019 11:00 #111138

  • Derek and Janice Wallace
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As so much of stuff today you need the "certificate" Doesn't matter if the engine chucks out black reek as long as the paperwork is there !
And therein lies the problem. No money in it. Each install would be different. Bespoke engineering at around £100 an hour soon adds up.
There would need to be a certification body approving inpectors with a bunch of equipment to test each engine throughout it's entire power band in all situations, Shouldn't take more than a few months charging up and down the canal !!
Common rail is what separates old from new. Electronic control of fuel is much more accurate than any mechanical governer on a diesel pump. Look how many cars have the same size engine and the engine control system determines the power output.
It is going to be a bit of a problem because as I understand it not many of the main engine manufacurers are interested in the small marine market. That's sub 250hp !
The days of taking a mass market engine and marinising it seems limited to as the electronic part is not a stand alone item in the vehicle. It's controlling and sensing so much more. As before who'd do the testing and provide the "certificate"
It needs some common sense to prevail among the rule makes. Good luck with that !
Just look at the car "scrappage" fiasco !

Derek
The following user(s) said Thank You: Ian Hollands

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Engines - Emissions Legislation 04 Nov 2019 10:13 #111137

One thing we could all do to go some way to making our diesel engines less polluting, would be to use GTL. (Gas To Liquid). This is natural gas made into a liquid, (not under pressure like bottled gas), which replaces diesel without any modifications required. It is claimed to reduce Nox by up to 37% and Particulate Matter by up to 50%. The problem is finding a supplier. You would think it would be available on all garage forecourts if it was such a good thing.
Shell is the main manufacturer, though Certas Energy seem to be the main dealers in UK with a 'find a supplier' button on their website. Elsewhere in Europe, trip boats in Strasbourg etc are using it, and of course many cruise ships etc in Holland, but my enquiries in Belgium have so far drawn a blank.
Price is said to be about 10 cents more than diesel.
I did once hear of a company in Staphorst (Holland) who remanufactured DAF engines and stopped them smoking, but it cost almost as much as a new engine. I don't now if they are still in existence.

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Engines - Emissions Legislation 04 Nov 2019 00:24 #111132

I've had a couple of quotes to fit a SCR/adblue system etc to a 6cyl 8ltr marine diesel. £7000 - 25000. And certification not guaranteed.
Another poster wrote that car engine conversion was not economic.
And it seems that only really large engines can be bought with proper emissions control/SCR.
Modern car engines have changed , well certainly petrol ones with Atkinson and Miller cycle as well as the familiar Otto cycle.
As for a Audi 3 ltr diesel - I'd be off to get a Tesla!!

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Colin Stone
Barge Register KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
DBA - The Barge Association
DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

Engines - Emissions Legislation 03 Nov 2019 23:50 #111131

  • Peter Cawson
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We read about old engines potentially being condemned on larger vessels because they produce unacceptable emissions. Surely these older engines could be modified to meet current limits if they are otherwise in good condition. After all, a modern internal combustion engine is essentially much the same as one built 10, 20 or even 50 years ago - pistons inside cylinders being pushed by exploding fuel.

The condition of what comes out of the exhaust pipe is governed by the mechanism for controlling the flow of fuel into the cylinders and the filtering of the gas being ejected. These are the areas where modern engines have been developed to ensure their emissions meet current legislation.

Surely we shouldn't ever need to condemn an entire engine to achieve this level of cleanliness. Are there not (or should there not be) authorised specialists where old engines in good condition (tightly fitting pistons, etc) can have their fuel management and exhaust systems upgraded or changed so that current regulations can be met - and be provided with a legal certificate to say so? They may lose a bit of power by these modifications, but should get a new clean lease of life.

This should be very much less costly than scrapping an old engine and installing a new one - and much more environmentally friendly when taking into account the energy and carbon footprint of manufacturing that new engine.

I'd also like to see approved motor workshops where car engines can be re-certified after similar cleaning up work has been done. Even more sensible with cars as we never just change and engine, but entire cars will soon be condemned to the scrapheap with anticipated future legislation. I'd like my 3 litre diesel Audi to be modified to reduce its 191 CO2 emissions and its other nasties - and have this officially recognised so that I don't get stopped from entering certain cities and I pay less motor tax!

Does anyone know if there are - or soon will be - engineering works where engines (marine or auto) can be modified to meet current and likely future legislation?

Peter

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