TOPIC: mechanical starters....batteries not needed

I recently emailed the IPU Group to enquire as to the cost of a spring starter for a Gardner 8.4litre 6LW, and received this response:

"Does the Gardner engine have a saddle mounted starter? (Clamps to engine rather than a standard flange); if it is a clamp arrangement it’s a non-starter (excuse the pun). Typical price would be in the region of £1000. Not many people use them from non-commercial marine applications because of cost they are not mass produced like electric starters."

So at £1000, it looks a rather expensive option !

www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2PTqxow0_g

Lovely film clip, Tim, both sight and sound, thanks!

Pete Clark

Mike Gibbons wrote: Now that would be good for us all to see - we should think about where we could all dump our favourites for everyone to view!

There is now a Forum section under Barge Life for links to your favourite videos - as long as they involve barges! I'll move Daniel's links there. They look great!

FM

Now that would be good for us all to see - we should think about where we could all dump our favourites for everyone to view!

Doesn't YouTube on your laptop give you a right-hand column of associated thumbnails?

Anyway, Google Nivernais and you get over 30 videos to choose from!

Mike

why are you so selfish ?????????

Common decency/courtesy dictates that you'd share the URL's

C'mon teasing us with YouTube video's but not sharing.......tssss

No harm in that Mike, plenty of time for the shed.

I was looking at some videos myself yesterday and thinking that armchair boating might be all we will get this year. Let’s have some links to the best ones please. Perhaps, everybody, a dedicated thread of barging & boating videos to watch?

I have also dug out all our old 35mm slide carousels, and even found that the old slide projector works, so it’s a good time to sort through them and get them digitised, except of course that the evenings are getting lighter so may have to find the blackout curtains or work a night shift!

Balliol.

Oh now look what you've done! I've discovered all those YouTube videos of barges chugging through Burgundy. How am I going to find time to empty the shed???

Mike Gibbons
"Decize"

I know nostalgia isn’t what it used to be...but what a beautiful sound the old k4 makes. Magic. C

Indeed nothing like a Kelvin 88, happy that ours is fitted with a starter motor! Heres's the Randle with Kelvin 88 (K4) chugging into Accolay on the Canal-du Nivernais last Summer youtu.be/VLhSWggdp9Y

Ah but nothing like my old Kelvin 88. It had additional cylinders on top of the main cylinder heads. These were equipped with spark plugs ,a magneto, a veury rudimentary carburettor in the form of a copper bowl which dripped petrol into the upper cylinders and isolating valves to separate the upper and lower cylinders. You put petrol into the bowl, engaged the magneto, opened the valve which connected the upper cylinders to the main cylinders, wound out a lever on the diesel injectors so they didn’t work seized the starting handle on the back of the gearbox and wound like mad. If you were lucky you could get it over top dead centre, one of the spark plugs would ignite the petrol vapour and the engine would start to turn over. Before the petrol run out you had to wind in the injectors and then throw the lever which disconnected the upper Cylinders. Then as you genuflected and said your hail Mary’s you waited… As the revs fell off the injectors started to inject and perhaps just before the engine wound to a complete stop one of the cylinders would fire with a major explosion and the engine would leap (literally) into life. Once it was running we never stopped it unless we were mooTring up for more than a week! It was an amazing piece of kit and I refurbished it with the warning that if it played up it was out! All went well until on a falling springtide it seized on me 300 yards above the Thames barrier. We replaced it with a Gardner 8lxb!
(Well that filled a few moments of 12 weeks of self incarceration sorry isolation. C

Tam Murrell wrote: The old Deutz in Friesland when we bought her out of trade had compressed air start. Strictly it was compressed exhaust gas start, and the first job after starting was to recharge the bottle from the exhaust. You screw in a carrier with a salt petre soaked wick which ignited with the first few compressions and kept the engine running until it warmed up sufficiently to no longer need that.

Tam

Are you sure that was actually exhaust gas Tam?

The multi-cylinder air start engines that I am slightly familiar with use one cylinder as a pure compressor when required, compressing intake air but obviously not injecting diesel. Never heard of using burnt gas.

It is interesting to see that you can buy compressed air starter motors (also hydraulic). The air requirement seems to be within the pressure and flow realms of a reasonable workshop compressor, not very high pressure like an air starting engine (in the form we have mentioned, high pressure air on piston). I think I would go that way if disenchanted with conventional D.C. electric starter motors.

cdn.ipu.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/IPU-Air-Starting-Systems-Brochure-2018-11.pdf

Balliol.

The old Deutz in Friesland when we bought her out of trade had compressed air start. Strictly it was compressed exhaust gas start, and the first job after starting was to recharge the bottle from the exhaust. You screw in a carrier with a salt petre soaked wick which ignited with the first few compressions and kept the engine running until it warmed up sufficiently to no longer need that.

Tam

They are currently used on mining equipment engines where a total spark free environment can be guaranteed. Maybe an advantage is you could start the engine then re-charge the spring to give a start up your sleeve, probably not good for the spring to be left charged.
For electric free there is the option of sir start.
Or there is the inertia start, a geared up flywheel. They are seen in the WW2 movies of aircraft or tanks being started. Put a crank handle into a socket and wind for all your worth. Eventually the highly geared flywheel gets up to speed , then engage the starter. The Panzer tanks used this for. Starting a 600hp engine. Imagine using this every two hours in the Russian winter as the engine required regular starting to stop the oil freezing.

These are really for emergency use and have used them many times on ships as part as first start measure. Not a quick fix as you have to remove the stater motor and bolt on the mechanical starter to start a generator. They are a set burvelle washers forming a stiff spring which have to be compressed with a winding handle.

Bit of a fag if you have to stop the engine at every lock, or forget to preheat (where necessary). They have been around for a long time but never taken off. Good for simple plant etc. where the access to wind up the clockwork may be easy (and indeed possible!)

Balliol.

Hi
Yes I had one on my Gardner 6lxb on Maximilian. Carried it as a spare but used it occasionally. Bit of a beast to wind up and was always worried it was going to bite me when I let it off. Prob was you had to be in the engine room to start the engine. C

Stumbled over this one.....a spring starter...Has anybody used one ever?
no need for a starer battery etc...

www.ipu-starting.com/products/spring-starters/