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BARGES: All about barges and barging - building, buying, maintaining, equipment, handling on the water, etc.
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TOPIC: Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 24 Apr 2020 14:25 #115531

On re-reading my previous post, I see I went a bit off topic and into grumble mode. Back on topic, I suggest that this was indeed a one-off. I had my original TRIWV survey done by a Dutch surveyor at Atelier Fluvial's yard in SJdL in 2012 and there was no suggestion that the inspection had to be carried out by a french inspector. They offered to put me in contact with one but in no way did they insist. The ES-TRIN survey was done in 2018 by the same Dutch surveyor at VNF's dry dock at Wittring, again no problem.

Pete Clark

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Pete Clark
Nooit Gedacht

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 24 Apr 2020 14:17 #115530

Hi Lieke, thanks for that. I'm not surprised, honestly - I had my pre-purchase survey done there in 2008 (I knew nothing of barges back then and the seller suggested it, being the closest yard to the boat's then home moorings at Nancy). Like me, my UK surveyor, a respected DBA member, was less than impressed with the state of the yard generally and the attitude of the owner. I'd advise to steer clear of them.

Pete Clark

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Pete Clark
Nooit Gedacht

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 24 Apr 2020 13:47 #115529

The yard is in the town of Vitry-le-François, Garniér's.
Please note this happened to a friend of ours (not a DBA member), so this may have been a one off problem. However probably best to check before booking into any french shipyard exactly what their position is regarding ES-TRIN certification by a ‘foreign’ surveyor.

Lieke

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Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 22 Apr 2020 14:51 #115473

Sorry. Hello Lieke ...

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Pete Clark
Nooit Gedacht

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 22 Apr 2020 14:50 #115472

Hello alieke
Can you tell us which yard?
Pete Clark

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Pete Clark
Nooit Gedacht

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 22 Apr 2020 14:44 #115471

Just a word of caution.....
Recently a french shipyard initially refused to allow a Dutch inspector to carry out an ES-TRIN renewal on a friend’s Dutch registered Tjalk based in France, claiming the inspection had to comply with french rules and had to be carried out by a french inspector!

The owner who was very unhappy about the service he was receiving from the yard anyway refused and a stand off occurred. The french yard eventually backed down, but only after the whole affair had gone as high as Brussels.

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Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 16 Apr 2020 12:07 #115290

  • James Bailey
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Thank you all for the assistance, it is truly appreciated
Stay safe and healthy,

Jim

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Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 16 Apr 2020 11:44 #115289

Pete Clark wrote: A search of the Forum search will tell you more.

A look in the Knowledgebase will usually find more accurate information!

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 16 Apr 2020 11:30 #115288

Hello Balliol,
Absolutely correct for re-inspection in the same country - but - the recognition of the certificate is international but the format of the certificate is national although it follows the model certificate in ES-TRIN.

One significant difference in this case will be that the existing certificate is in French and the 'extension' will be in Dutch.

Our certificate is in Dutch, the inspection was provided in English and the out of water survey in Dutch!

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 16 Apr 2020 11:21 #115287

  • Balliol Fowden
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When my previous Belgian "Communautair Binnenvaartcertificaat voor Binnenschepen" was renewed by Register Holland in 2018 it was simply "extended" by updating the relevant pages. A new overall certificate was not issued so the listing of derogations applied remained unchanged.

Perhaps just another way of putting what others have said but I was assured that an overall "new" certificate was not the way.

Balliol.

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Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 16 Apr 2020 10:42 #115286

Pete Clark - Not quite right. If you are renewing a certificate then the exceptions will be listed in your current certificate and are still valid.

Jim is protecting his 'grandfather' rights by renewing before the current certificate expires.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Pete Milne

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 16 Apr 2020 10:01 #115284

Hi Jim

Pete is correct. However, without wanting to put a damper on things, I think I'm right in saying that in 2021 your boat will have to meet the new ES-TRIN requirements in force from 2020.. The last date for renewals under the previous rules was, I believe, 31.12.2019.
A search of the Forum search will tell you more.

Pete Clark

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Pete Clark
Nooit Gedacht

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 15 Apr 2020 21:09 #115280

  • James Bailey
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Thanks Pete. We really appreciate the information.
Stay healthy and safe.

Jim

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Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 15 Apr 2020 20:09 #115279

PS... If you have a Dutch surveyor, you will be issued with a Dutch version of the cerificate, not French. As it is an EU standard, it doesn't matter which country issues the certificate

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 15 Apr 2020 20:04 #115278

James Bailey wrote: Hello All,
I am looking for a definitive answer to this question. Is the Certificat Communautaire in France comparable to receiving an ES-TRIN certificate from a Dutch inspector? Our TRIWV is due to run out in 2021 and am looking to get scheduled to ensure it does not lapse.
Can you help?

Very simple! ES-TRIN (previosly TRIWV) is a standard for inspection which a boat (20m and over) must meet to obtain a Certificat Connunautaire. The other way round, a Certificat is the paper you recieve to certify that a boat meets the ES-TRIN tecnical requirements.

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

Certificat Communautaire vs ES-TRIN 15 Apr 2020 19:51 #115277

  • James Bailey
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Hello All,
I am looking for a definitive answer to this question. Is the Certificat Communautaire in France comparable to receiving an ES-TRIN certificate from a Dutch inspector? Our TRIWV is due to run out in 2021 and am looking to get scheduled to ensure it does not lapse.
Can you help?

Thank you,
Les Vieux Papillons

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