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TOPIC: HVO & Greener Boating

HVO & Greener Boating Today 10:27 #123234

  • Peter Smith
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I think the supply of waste veg oil feedstock will be the limiting factor. The clean, easy to collect material has been done to the rate of about 50% in the EU. The balance is more expensive to collect or process. It can go into fuel but also soaps and margarines, so not direct competitors for the feedstock.
Currently some waste veg oil is imported from Asia however this will dry up when Asia impliments EU standards and technology.
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HVO & Greener Boating Today 08:56 #123233

  • Colin Stone
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The International Energy Agency (IEA) makes a number of points, including:

There are also worries about bioenergy which involves the use of trees, crops and plants to make liquid fuel or to generate electricity.
Palm oil has been a major source of bioenergy, used to make diesel.



www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57149059
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Colin Stone
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DBA - The Barge Association
DBA - De Binnenvaartvereniging
DBA - L’Association des Péniches de Plaisance

HVO & Greener Boating 12 May 2021 13:56 #123074

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HVO & Greener Boating 03 May 2021 14:28 #122885

  • Keith Norfolk
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Andy Soper wrote: You didn't read my Ninf report then?

We discussed Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil as a possible future renewable inland waterway vessel fuel. It has lower emissions, fuel consumption marginally better, good resistance to water suspension and longer storage life. It can be mixed with existing red diesel with no complications. There are no component issues that were suggested with bio-diesel. Inevitably it costs more! Currently I pay 61ppl for red diesel in bulk at the 5% domestic rate for our heating, cooking and power generation. HVO, for a thousand litre delivery, costs 72ppl – 18% more – that is a lot to reduce emissions…..

Hi Andy,
Do I take it from the price you've quoted here that HVO is now a rebated fuel?

Keith

In UK both Crown Oil and New Era Fuels (emblazoned on the side of their new road tanker that delivered red to us)

Even at current price rates I think it may be a runner for us - especially the long life and resistance to water/bug contamination.

PS - Please note that there is no agreed formula for declaring intended use - so you need a heating tank

PPS - In the same magazine IWA (Alison Smedley) claims to have negotiated the self-declaration for boaters - they didn't - they lined up with RYA and BMF at 60/40 only. It was Rex Walden and myself that got HMRC to agree self-declaration - and got the Treasury to agree its continuation this year. Not bitter.......

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HVO & Greener Boating 03 May 2021 10:38 #122882

  • Chris Grant
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This is quite a good summary review
www.greenea.com/publication/is-hvo-the-holy-grail-of-the-world-biodiesel-market/

Peter Smith wrote: A better, 2nd generation, diesel substitute reducing some emissions by a couple of percent.
Being plant based it will have the same supply issues, and be a competitor for the feedstocks of other plant based fuels.

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HVO & Greener Boating 03 May 2021 01:12 #122879

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A better, 2nd generation, diesel substitute reducing some emissions by a couple of percent.
Being plant based it will have the same supply issues, and be a competitor for the feedstocks of other plant based fuels.

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HVO & Greener Boating 02 May 2021 19:52 #122872

  • John Frazer
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Sounds good if it's available.

presumably the supply is finite unlikely we will be front of queue, now hydrogen.................................

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HVO & Greener Boating 02 May 2021 19:10 #122871

  • Chris Grant
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In the UK, Crown Oil seem to be pushing HVO and able to supply Nationwide.

www.crownoil.co.uk/faq/hvo-fuel/

Pete Milne wrote: Fuel for thought from the IWA

More than 90% carbon neutral, and with none of the shortcomings displayed by its first generation cousin, it looks like being the drop-in replacement fuel for those keen to run their existing diesel engines into a carbon-neutral future.

Sounds good if it's available.

Pete

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HVO & Greener Boating 02 May 2021 18:49 #122870

  • Pete Milne
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Tony,

IWA is talking about HVOs. The BBC article doesn't mention HVOs.
As I said, "It's not very clear whether the BBC article is referring to 'first generation' biofuels or HVOs ".

Of course the sources need to be checked/controlled.

Pete
(not Peter)

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

HVO & Greener Boating 02 May 2021 18:31 #122869

  • Tony Davis
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Peter

I am not a chemist , but one company's website has :-

"Where does GREEN D+ fuel come from?
The HVO in GREEN D+ fuel is manufactured in a number of refineries around the world. The fuel is entirely made from waste materials such as used cooking oils, tallows and other waste oil. The fuel does not include any virgin crops."

The BBC seems to be saying that the numbers do not add up and that these biofuels must have some virgin crops in them, So okay the pollution etc in the country of use is less but the deforestation and disturbance in the country of origin is higher. The old problem of unintended consequence?
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HVO & Greener Boating 01 May 2021 21:03 #122866

  • Pete Milne
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It's not very clear whether the BBC artice is referring to 'first generation' biofuels or HVOs

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HVO & Greener Boating 01 May 2021 20:28 #122864

  • Tony Davis
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Not wishing to rain on anybody's parade , but you may find this BBC article relevant when thinking about HVOs

www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56819257?piano-modal

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HVO & Greener Boating 01 May 2021 19:35 #122862

  • Pete Milne
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Andy Soper wrote: You didn't read my Ninf report then?.

I certainly did but thought the IWA page on it was a good expansion on the subject.
While the increased cost NOW may be 18% it could be a lot lower if/when it's more readily available. Personally, using up to 100L/week for heating in winter I'd be happy to pay the extra for the climate. It's good to hear that "Even at current price rates I think it may be a runner for us - especially the long life and resistance to water/bug contamination."

Pete

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HVO & Greener Boating 01 May 2021 19:16 #122861

  • Andy Soper
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You didn't read my Ninf report then?

We discussed Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil as a possible future renewable inland waterway vessel fuel. It has lower emissions, fuel consumption marginally better, good resistance to water suspension and longer storage life. It can be mixed with existing red diesel with no complications. There are no component issues that were suggested with bio-diesel. Inevitably it costs more! Currently I pay 61ppl for red diesel in bulk at the 5% domestic rate for our heating, cooking and power generation. HVO, for a thousand litre delivery, costs 72ppl – 18% more – that is a lot to reduce emissions…..

In UK both Crown Oil and New Era Fuels (emblazoned on the side of their new road tanker that delivered red to us)

Even at current price rates I think it may be a runner for us - especially the long life and resistance to water/bug contamination.

PS - Please note that there is no agreed formula for declaring intended use - so you need a heating tank

PPS - In the same magazine IWA (Alison Smedley) claims to have negotiated the self-declaration for boaters - they didn't - they lined up with RYA and BMF at 60/40 only. It was Rex Walden and myself that got HMRC to agree self-declaration - and got the Treasury to agree its continuation this year. Not bitter.......
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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
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mv Neeltje
Coookham
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HVO & Greener Boating 01 May 2021 18:45 #122858

  • Pete Milne
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Fuel for thought from the IWA

More than 90% carbon neutral, and with none of the shortcomings displayed by its first generation cousin, it looks like being the drop-in replacement fuel for those keen to run their existing diesel engines into a carbon-neutral future.

Sounds good if it's available.

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.
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