Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
Remember - Your Username for logging in does not have to be your email address!
Read More...
BARGES: All about barges and barging - building, buying, maintaining, equipment, handling on the water, etc. (Public)
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC: Air Filter - does this need cleaning

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 29 Jul 2021 08:25 #124714

  • Balliol Fowden
  • Balliol Fowden's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 2942
  • Thank you received: 873
That is your engine’s only air inlet. Air in via filter and turbo to induction manifold.

If you really want to replace your original then you have a choice of manifold mounted units or separate bulkhead mounted units. The former, to a quick Google, seem to be mostly washable, re-usable foam or cotton elements, cheap enough to throw away if you prefer not to clean.

Separate truck type filter housings would more usually have replaceable elements. For pleasure boat usage however it is dubious whether these offer any advantage.

You probably only need to specify the flange size (80mm on my Daf 615) but you could also specify the required air flow (literage of engine x rpm).
Quite how the efficiencies of the various media compare I don’t know, but the simple fact I think is the bigger the filtration area the better the air flow. I guess you could pay a lot of money for something super-efficient but very often this will go on minimising size and weight, neither of which might be a problem in a barge. They might give you a few more bhp, but again it sounds as if you don’t need that!

I would either wash and keep the existing unit, or do as we did and fit an external system to draw cooler air, but that is a lot of work.

Balliol.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tim Horchler

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 28 Jul 2021 16:07 #124706

  • Tim Horchler
  • Tim Horchler's Avatar Topic Author
  • Online
  • Posts: 270
  • Thank you received: 61
Thanks Balliol

For a paper filter would I just need to note the diameter of this opening and let them hunt for something or is there a better way to specify what filter I would want to purchase? And while I might have you attention, can I assume that this filter is the main and only air intake for the engine? Or am I missing something else? DAF manual talks about air intake at manifold but with the turbo I think that is mute.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 28 Jul 2021 14:24 #124704

  • Balliol Fowden
  • Balliol Fowden's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 2942
  • Thank you received: 873
A paper filter will be a finer element that protects the engine better from dust and dirt ingress. Having said that, in the confines of a barge engine room dust and grit is less of a problem than on the roads or for plant, and many older engines run with nothing more than a mesh guard to stop big debris entering.

A paper element may also be a little better at reducing induction noise.

We used to draw our air externally to get cooler air, using an intake filter and induction silencer, although it is not connected at the moment for reasons I forget. Trucks all tend to draw cooler air from above the cabs these days, which obviously improves efficiency.

Balliol.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tim Horchler

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 28 Jul 2021 13:14 #124700

  • Tim Horchler
  • Tim Horchler's Avatar Topic Author
  • Online
  • Posts: 270
  • Thank you received: 61
Would like to come back to the members with a follow-up on this filter and the Holset Engineering Co (Huddersfield, UK) turbocharger that it fits on. Attached is a picture of data plate from the turbocharger. I have been trying to locate a manual for this turbo. Seems the company has been purchased.

Part No. and Type -
12050/6 and this: 3 275 191
Above this info on the plate is hand stamped: D Q

Serial No. 34.124

Engine Part No. 236292/2

While I have obtained the cleaning fluid I have not yet done the cleaning. Is there an option to use a paper-type filter? Which type of filter would be judged the best? So looking for the manual to see what it has to say; part number. Good to have the manual in general. Would a paper filter be better than this metal type I have that can be owner cleaned? thanks Hope the picture rotates

Attachments:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 23 Jul 2021 13:41 #124635

  • Derek and Janice Wallace
  • Derek and Janice Wallace's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 221
  • Thank you received: 53
You're turbo is always involved. Maybe just a little at idle but it spins. The engine is governed. You can't over rev it. Floor it at every oportunity if you want longevity.
After cleaning with your solvent of choice (I aleways use Jizer as some of the lookalikes lack performance) spray the filter with some light oil and let it drain. It might catch some dust then! Personally I'd be looking at a paper style to reolace it.
A Cummins design engineer remarked to me that if cutomers kept the oil, fuel and air clean then the spares parts busuness would be reduntant !
Derek
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tim Horchler

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 23 Jul 2021 13:27 #124634

  • Tim Horchler
  • Tim Horchler's Avatar Topic Author
  • Online
  • Posts: 270
  • Thank you received: 61
I have been watching this morning and will correct what stated. Going 6.3kph the engine is doing 950rpm. So higher than I recalled when I wrote. This is a DAF 575

Yes, temperature is about 80.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 23 Jul 2021 10:58 #124630

  • Colin Stone
  • Colin Stone's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 4960
  • Thank you received: 788
I recall in my engine hunt in the early 2000s that naturally aspirated was the way to go for inland waterways vessels. I guess those sort of engines at lower power ratings are increasingly less available due to achieving emissions requirements. But the Doosan L136 is still on the Watermota website.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Paul Hayes

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Colin Stone
BREXIT - the gift that keeps taking
Barge Register KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
DBA - The Barge Association

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 23 Jul 2021 09:53 #124629

  • Paul Hayes
  • Paul Hayes's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 2735
  • Thank you received: 1136
Hi Tim At 750 rpm your engine is running at tick over.
Your ship and engine would have been paired for the work it did, So it would have been powerful enough to push a loaded ship at reasonable speed probably across Meets estuaries, up and down big river, and coastal.
The turbo would have been singing away for hours on end, just like a truck on the Autoroute, i.e at its most efficient.

Transfer the same vessel to the small canals and it's impossible to get the motor up to spooling speed, which may be lower than the "typical" rpm I suggested.. As the engine is under such a small load. Probably something like 20%of it's potential. So the turbo isn't doing a great deal y anything really, it to will be "idling".
All the more important to , a) keep the filter clean, and work the engine when you get the opportunity.
Do you manage to get it up to normal temperature, somewhere around 80 degrees?

Paul Hayes
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tim Horchler

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 23 Jul 2021 08:53 #124626

  • Colin Stone
  • Colin Stone's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 4960
  • Thank you received: 788
Tim,
In NL "wasbenzine", in FR "essence F", should do the trick. Generally on supermarket shelves. A really useful product for cleaning anything and pretty cheap.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tim Horchler

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Colin Stone
BREXIT - the gift that keeps taking
Barge Register KEI
www.luxe-motor-kei.co.uk
DBA - The Barge Association

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 23 Jul 2021 08:22 #124623

  • Balliol Fowden
  • Balliol Fowden's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 2942
  • Thank you received: 873
Degreaser in the UK would be Jizer or similar. Dissolves grease and oil, then wash with water. I have forgotten the usual brand names in Europe (possibly Comma) but a 5 litre can is a useful thing in an engine room. You may find lots more uses for it, the parts that an oily rag doesn't reach!

Brake cleaner would be another suitable product. Available from automotive parts shops or the "car" shelves in a Brico. Dunk the filter in a shallow bowl of the neat stuff or spray on with a hand spray bottle, work it in to all the pores with a stiff brush, then rinse out well and dry before refitting.

Balliol.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tim Horchler

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 23 Jul 2021 07:53 #124621

  • Peter Smith
  • Peter Smith's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 667
  • Thank you received: 226
Tim, you have a lovley clean engine! However the turbo looks like it has an oily patina from new, if so the casting will smoke a bit as the oil cooks off and fill the engine compartment.
It's normal for a new startup and after the first heat up it should stop smoking then after a bit get a rusty sheen.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tim Horchler

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 22 Jul 2021 23:06 #124615

  • Tim Horchler
  • Tim Horchler's Avatar Topic Author
  • Online
  • Posts: 270
  • Thank you received: 61
And I suppose I should ask what is washed out with de-greaser solution or similar,

Diesel fuel? Something with a brand name? Some detail here please before I take a wrong turn. Thanks

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 22 Jul 2021 22:55 #124614

  • Tim Horchler
  • Tim Horchler's Avatar Topic Author
  • Online
  • Posts: 270
  • Thank you received: 61
I don't know if I have ever had that high of rpm. When does the turbo kick in? I am in a basin so when I pull out the next time I will see if I can raise the rpm to 1500.

Normally I sit at 750 or so at 6mph

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 22 Jul 2021 22:24 #124613

  • Paul Hayes
  • Paul Hayes's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 2735
  • Thank you received: 1136
Tim wrote
"I don't let the turbo get involved too often."

Sorry to inform you, but that's not a good idea. Turbo engines are designed to burn the fuel at peak efficiency when the turbo is "spooling", which on marine engines of the size installed in our size barges, is generally around 1500 - 1800 r.p.m.

Running under this speed the engine will run "rich", or over carburated, the unburnt carbon will "coke" in the cylinder head and possibly worse on the exhaust turbine blades of the turbo.

I know that 6 kph on canals doesn't let many engines get up to spooling speed, but when on a river or lake, let it have a bit more gas and run hard to burn off any carbon build up.
Your engine will thank you for it.

Paul Hayes
The following user(s) said Thank You: Johann Schepers, Tim Horchler

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 22 Jul 2021 17:06 #124610

  • Balliol Fowden
  • Balliol Fowden's Avatar
  • Online
  • Posts: 2942
  • Thank you received: 873
Turbo or not a clogged air filter restricts combustion air intake and starves the engine of air, causing inefficiency and enhanced emissions. That turbo is trying to shove as much air into the engine as possible but it stands no chance if the air can't get toit because the filter is clogged, and your filter looks pretty dirty if you don't mind me saying so. I suspect that it is a wire gauze filter, in which case it can be washed out with degreaser solution or similar, and blow dried with compressed air if you have it.

Balliol.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Johann Schepers, Tim Horchler, Sam Archer

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Air Filter - does this need cleaning 22 Jul 2021 16:24 #124608

  • Tim Horchler
  • Tim Horchler's Avatar Topic Author
  • Online
  • Posts: 270
  • Thank you received: 61
This item must be an air filter attached to the turbo. Does it need cleaning? Replaced? Looks just like it did when I bought the barge. Looks like it could be cleaned and then put back on. Do I mess with it or leave it be? I don't let the turbo get involved too often.

Attachments:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Moderators: Pete Milne
Time to create page: 0.806 seconds