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Navigating and living on the waterways of Continental Europe and news of canal developments.
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TOPIC: Do I have a black water tank installed?

Do I have a black water tank installed? 10 May 2020 14:53 #115836

> Could anyone please advise on a sensible size fo a waste tank for a barge that would normally have 2 aboard, and rarely more than 4? (Surely not 1250 litres

400 litres would last you quite a while. Certainly ample for NL where pumpouts are easily found (or large lakes where overboard discharge on the move may be OK, but probably illegal), but in France, you'd probably need the 1250 litre tank if you insist on pumpouts. These are very few and far between and often out of order. In practice in France, it's generally best to discharge a small quantity at a time while underway on big rivers. Or do what most do in France, discharge direct from WC rather than collect a fortnight's worth before jettisoning!

Peter
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Do I have a black water tank installed? 10 May 2020 14:35 #115834

My 54' English river barge was built a trip boat with 3 tanks:
* Fuel Tank—1600 litres.
* Water Tank—1250 litres stainless steel.
* Waste tank—1250 litres stainless steel, with macerator toilet above.

The vast waste tank was there to accommodate trippers ; up to 40 at a time!
Now that it has been converted into a live-aboard, I had considered replacing the existing WC with a cartridge unit, and using the SS waste tank as a second fuel tank, which would usefully add a bit of liquid ballast more centrally.

From what I read below, if waste tanks are to become mandatory,it seems that I should perhaps let things be!

However, if I do convert the existing waste tank into a fuel tank, perhaps I could get away with a smaller waste tank put elsewhere.
Could anyone please advise on a sensible size fo a waste tank for a barge that would normally have 2 aboard, and rarely more than 4? (Surely not 1250 litres!
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Do I have a black water tank installed? 10 Feb 2020 14:56 #113738

Peter Cawson wrote: No, it means that one can avoid discharging in sensitive areas such as marinas.

Oh No it doesn't!!!
My charming winter neighbour in Portus Ganda just blew his full tank a few metres from where I was working on deck this morning. At the dead of night nobody would care.
The rest of us, with 'old ladies' quietly feed the fish. One even draws water from the harbour for washing and shwering. His water and the harbour water is regularly tested and clean enough for an annual official swim.

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

Do I have a black water tank installed? 10 Feb 2020 13:37 #113737

> I hope that's not true Peter, or there would be little point in having a black tank on a vessel used inland. It just means it is pumped in one huge mass rather than dribbles as the loo is used.

No, it means that one can avoid discharging in sensitive areas such as marinas. "A little and often" could be the way to empty a tank if pumpout facilities are not available or if one has no deck outlet

Peter

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Do I have a black water tank installed? 10 Feb 2020 12:55 #113733

I hope that's not true Peter, or there would be little point in having a black tank on a vessel used inland. It just means it is pumped in one huge mass rather than dribbles as the loo is used.

Tam

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Do I have a black water tank installed? 10 Feb 2020 12:50 #113731

> Their answer to that one was to suggest organisation of a cesspit truck to relieve full blackwater tanks

That would only work if everyone has a deck pumpout point. Many with black tanks just have an overboard discharge option - hopefully below water line, so cesspit truck not any help.

Peter

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Do I have a black water tank installed? 10 Feb 2020 10:17 #113720

I wouldn't want to lecture anyone on this but I do think as a political imperative this issue will overtake questions of both economy and practicality. It was interesting talking about the rally proposal in Arras last week that the local officials are primarily concerned about being able to get local political approval in the face of an environmental lobby that is giving their politicians a hard time, hence the preoccupation with protection of birdlife and the concern about pollution in the bassin. Their answer to that one was to suggest organisation of a cesspit truck to relieve full blackwater tanks, but I fear it is the biggest risk to the rally that not enough of us will have a retaining container in the first place?

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Do I have a black water tank installed? 10 Feb 2020 09:24 #113719

When we renovated our 1905 Tjalk, we fitted a black water tank not because it is required in FR but in the furure by selling. We also have a 2 way valve, and another 2 way valve for the water used in the toilet. This we use if we are in an area where there is a lot of weed, or other such things that can block filters.

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Do I have a black water tank installed? 09 Feb 2020 23:49 #113715

Hello Balliol and Pete,

1950 or before.

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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Do I have a black water tank installed? 09 Feb 2020 23:45 #113714

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I believe it remains the case that craft built before 1955 (date from memory) are exempt from containment, although that is perhaps no help to Les.

My preferred solution would be loos plumbed to a holding tank with pumped discharge from tank to water, + a separate deck pump out fitting. Pump out when under way on an open waterway, or through deck if a pump out unit is available

I would have thought that the boat might sell more easily and/or better in central France than in NL. Less competition?

Balliol.
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Do I have a black water tank installed? 09 Feb 2020 22:21 #113712

Hello Les,

The Regulations section of the knowledge base. covers the regulations on black water tanks. In NL you are legally required to have one.
However the NL pleasure boaters are fighting a rearguard campaign as commercial craft ( under ES -Trin) are not required to have a tank or a sewage treatment plant unless carrying 15 passengers or more.. I think they will fail as NL politicians win more votes from green initiatives.

As has been commented all NL marinas with 50 or more berths are required to provide a pump out - but not necessarily accessible or serviceable.

Suggest , for best resale value, fit a tank and a bypass.
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Best Wishes
Andy Soper
DBA Director Representation and Treasurer
mv Neeltje
Coookham
0044 (0) 303 666 0636

You don't need a barge to join - a dream of boating in Europe will do'. See www.barges.org

Do I have a black water tank installed? 09 Feb 2020 22:17 #113711

Les Easom wrote: What is the situation with black water tanks in that country? Are they totally necessary? Are there pumpouts at the majority of boatyards/moorings?

No, no totally necessary - yet! With a 25m barge, marinas are a no, and as Peter says pumpouts are usually hard to access. The law is changing but the idea of thousands of boats, mostly used for holidays, retrofitting black tanks is unlikely.

How many DBA member's barges have holding tanks, whether used or not?

Pete

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Pete Milne, Quo Vadis , Gent.

Do I have a black water tank installed? 09 Feb 2020 21:29 #113710

The Netherlands boat owners we have spoken to do not have holding tanks in their 10 to 17 meter range craft. Although none were new built vessels.
The marinas we have visited seem to have the pumpuot in an awkward location close to the shore and it is rare to see it used. One Haven Master commented the income from the pumpuot was far less than the costs to install and maintain the service and as a result its use was not something they promoted. By having the installation the star rating of the marina was improved.

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Do I have a black water tank installed? 08 Feb 2020 22:34 #113690

  • Les Easom
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I have done a fair amount of searching the forum about this but have eventually decided that it is quicker (hopefully) to ask the questions directly.

Our boat has a straight-through toilet which has never been a problem in France; and, given the scarcity of pump-out stations is unlikely to be for a long time.
However we are thinking of moving north - into Holland - in the foreseeable future. The boat is of dutch design and build and so is more likely to sell easier in home waters.
What is the situation with black water tanks in that country? Are they totally necessary? Are there pumpouts at the majority of boatyards/moorings? What is the situation re. discharging if pumping out is not possible? Should we have a two-way set-up so that we can discharge directly into the water or into a tank?
Any responses to these questions or any questions I have not thought to ask will be gratefully received.

Les Easom
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